Do you actually KNOW anything about the band? They are making a political point and don’t actually expect to get paid.
Also, their last concert DVD had an entire documentary about depleted uranium.
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Speaking of oddball torture sounds, when my brother was in the Army he underwent “detainee training” where the soldiers are exposed to conditions they might encounter if they are captured. As expected loud sound was used to torture the soldiers. In addition to all the other expected sounds (e.g. off-key mistimed piano “music”) a young child incessantly crying was included. My brother knows the person who had mastered the CD that was used for his training. The person who mastered the CD had used his own child for the crying part. Which means my brother also knows the child.
So, my brother has been locked in what is essentially a dog kennel for several sleep deprived days. He and his fellow soldiers are physically and mentally exhausted. The crying child part starts playing. My brother bursts out laughing hysterically. His fellow soldiers, concerned he has snapped, ask what’s wrong. His reply, “I know that kid. She’s throwing a temper tantrum because her dad wants her to go to bed. She’s actually kind of a brat. Excellent choice!”
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Do you often read beyond the quickest skim of a title before replying to threads?
You should consider doing so.
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If you are saying they’re only filing this for the publicity and not for its merits, it sounds like malicious use of process. If I don’t like when Righthaven does it, I don’t see why I should feel better just because Skinny Puppy is doing it instead.
Your “for profit” link is about copies being made without a profit motive. The whole phrase “public performance for profit” has a long history in copyright (http://earlyradiohistory.us/1922pub.htm ) and although the current law tends to more discretely list out limitations the phrase as a whole is still a part of many decisions.
But while working on this reply, I noticed that the law currently has a lot of public performance exceptions for “government bodies” http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/110
(C) the transmission is made solely for, and, to the extent technologically feasible, the reception of such transmission is limited to—(ii) officers or employees of governmental bodies as a part of their official duties or employment; and
Again, I’m not saying I’m in favor of torture. I just want law to work the same no matter what my personal feelings for either side of the dispute. The easier it is for Skinny Puppy can sue the government over the playing (not copying, simply playing) their music, the easier it is for Warner Chappell to sue me. I’d rather Skinny Puppy find a different way of protesting torture.
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Which has been made irrelevant by the way music is sold in the U.S.
What does the band’s license agreement have to say about public performances?
Which you’ve edited and trimmed quite nicely changing the intent and meaning.
That’s more than 18 uses of a personal pronoun in just 5 posts. I suspect your true intent is to make this discussion about you.
Oh the foul stench of flawed logic. I’m going to need a mighty big shovel for that pile of dung.
Or are you actually admitting to public performances of copyright material on an internet forum?
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Not for publicity, for a political statement. Not the same thing at all. I mean, sorry they care about lives other than their own…
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the video brings back memories, i really liked that song back then and i still do. ogre is a talented artist and still is today. too bad the music got smeared but, after all, "This Is A Criminal Age’!
I’m going to chime in with @aml here because I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if the DoD has a blanket ASCAP/BMI licensing agreement for public performances of recorded works so in all probability this invoice isn’t worth the paper wit was printed on. Copyright and licensing in the US does not have the legal concept of “moral right of the author” so creators don’t get to say what uses are appropriate and what aren’t, much less dictate the circumstances of public performance of their recordings.
Of course I’m unsurpassed that Cevin Key objected to his works used this way, but really this comes off to me as “Skinny Puppy wants to remind you that they are still around and want to look relevant”.
Key says the band was told it could bring a suit against the Department of Defense.
By whom? Did this person ever even play a lawyer on TV?
“We sent them an invoice for our musical services considering they had gone ahead and used our music without our knowledge and used it as an actual weapon against somebody,” Key told CTV’s Kevin Newman Live.
With their knowledge or without, no artist gets to dictate this. Doesn’t matter whether the band is rebel rebel or not. A recording of “Jesus Loves Me” could be played at a commercial S&M dungeon as long as the establishment had the appropriate ASCAP/BMI licensing.
Was the $666,000 figure they are suing for a clue?
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Isn’t that in the public domain?
I understood the phrase “without their knowledge” to mean they (which includes their recording company and manager) were not informed via application or payment that their copyrighted material was being used without attribution or royalty payment.
Well, that, and I known enough about the band to know how they operate on stuff like this. But the price tag helped!
@aml’s argument is that torturing Guantanamo Bay prisoners is a private performance precluding the need for additional licensing.
Your argument is that torturing Guantanamo Bay prisoners is a public performance and the DoD has the necessary license.
Just one problem. “prison” is not on the list of business types that can obtain a license…
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/
“detention center”. Nope. “Guantanamo Bay”. Nope. “torture camp”. Nope. “government”. Almost but not quite.
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Shitty Puppy has sucked since the 90’s Ogur a supposed vegan and PETA supporter…where was his morals when he was shooting heroin in his veins that Burros carried the opium through the mountains of Afghanistan ? Oh thats right he’s in recovery now so thats okay we can overlook that… The music was piped in individually to the cells thats a private listening booth not a public venue. Funny how they come up with this PR campaign right when they are touring what a piece of crap i hope that tour bus shoots off a cliff ! TWO WORDS for Shitty Puppy : NITZER EBB you wish you could be like them…
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The lyrics and tune may well be but a fixed performance (AKA a recording) would be copyrighted.
The recording company or manager may have nothing to do with payments by PROs, it depends who is the registered songwriter. Also it depends if they get an itemized payment statement or just a money transfer from their PRO. In any case attribution isn’t required for a public performance of a recording, merely a license from a PRO to play fixed recordings in public.
I speculated that the DoD or a broad federal license may exist. I had no intent to repeat @aml 's argument, that would not add anything to the conversation.
But ASCAP does have a local government license. Nonetheless, the lack of any specific mention on their site of any type of federal license does not mean it does not exist.
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Nitzer Ebb; really ?!??!?
Next, you’ll bring up à;GRUMH.
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Although the discussion did devolve into discussions of what defense the governments might use, my main point was this:
The media establishment as a whole has, by both law and court precedent become increasingly parsimonious in what they allow the public to use of the works they produce. Uses that used to be allowed or ignored now become infringement actions, let alone any new use of work recently created by technology.
Instead of applauding an action by someone we believe to be doing good against an action we believe to be doing bad, maybe we should take a moment to take a look at the act itself without the opinions of the parties involved.
If we don’t like torture, make sure this country doesn’t torture. Don’t twist copyright as a symbolic stand against torture. Copyright has been twisted long enough.
Its similar to the ACLU defended the KKK’s right to march. The KKK isn’t a group worth defending, but the right to march is. If the laws, ordinances, etc that tried to keep the clan marching were upheld, it would be harder to have an Occupy Wall Street decades later.
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