You don’t prevent undocumented people with a wall. Simply put, if we made the penalty for employing an undocumented person jail time and forefiture of all assets we would watch America start hiring Americans and stop brutally exploiting non-citizens. The fact is that illegal immigration is good for donors to both parties, and any wall is a waste until we act on that.
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This experiment (sort of) was done. It did not end well for the populace.
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The accent is on (sort of).
Georgia did this badly, and had bad results. They needed a guest worker program, and did not have one. They failed to raise wages and did not hire. (There is no such thing as a job Americans won’t do; there are wages Americans won’t work for and conditions they won’t work under.) Again, if you tell me we need to exploit non-citizens to make the system work, then you have told me that you have a shit system.
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I will agree, we have a shit system. In order to maintain the prices and profits at their current levels, you do, in fact, have to have folks desperate enougn to work for slave wages under inhuman conditions. Pretty much definition of shit system.
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Also, undocumented persons affect so much – rental housing stock, education and services spending, etc. – that it’s a significant part of our Civic tax burden. We need change.
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Exactly! Lots of examples of things governments will spend money on that don’t actually solve a problem:
- Any abstinence-only sexual education
- Drug-testing welfare recipients
- Centralising and decentralising departments every 5 years
- A lot of (though not by any means all) climate policy by conservative governments in the last decade
and much, MUCH more
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No.
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You’re saying ‘No’ to suggest the system doesn’t need change? Because, sir, that is not true. At all.
I am saying “no” to your claim that undocumented are an economic burden. Our shitty system thrives on the backs of undocumented labor and would suffer if they were excluded. And yes, that needs to change.
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But the undocumented DO have an economic effect on citizens, from taxation to car insurance…why should my taxes subsidize the exploitation of humans to line the pockets of the 1%? Why am I paying more in rent so someone wealthy can save money on gardening, housecleaning, childcare?
Our shitty system exploits people, and you seem to be fine with that. I would prefer a system of, by and for citizens, no matter how flawed, than one that exploits imported serfs and asks me to play along.
escalating the war on brown people will never reduce brutality or exploitation
that’s just not how it works
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And to think, all you people mocked Trump for wanting to electrify the wall and put a moat full of laser-armed sharks in front of it. Well who’s the idiot now, huh?
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I did not say ‘a war on brown people.’ I said 'Punishment for those who break the social contract by employing the undocumented."
I could not expect to go to Canada and be provided with social services. Why am I asked to provide services for non-citizens whose labor makes plutocrats richer?
of course not, you just want thugs to hunt them down and punish anyone who might be hiding them
billions for surveillance and enforcement, not a penny for “services” though, that would be wasteful
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Or if you’re Theo Grey, you could just use bacon and oxygen.
I suppose Chicarones (meaty pork rinds) would work well for this too, as they are laden with flammable fat.
I like the idea of weaponized mexican pork rinds literally cutting down trumps stupid fucking wall.
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Not ‘hiding them.’. Employing them, which is also against the law. Which is enforced by police and gov’t workers, not ‘thugs.’
Nor am I in favor of billions for surveillance; that money could be better used for services for citizens.
Please stop deliberately misstating my points. It’s not helpful.
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Smart. Getting a head start on ski season in Colorado.
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When debating whether a particular law is ethical, it’s not very useful to point out that it makes something illegal.
Also, is it illegal to call ICE agents thugs, or are you just saying no ICE agents are thugs?
If some ICE agents are thugs, then handing them enforcement duties is problematic.
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Or even cheaper, simpler and saner, institute a manual labor visa system.
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Worker visa programs don’t work for blue collar work unless there is some kind of permanent status in the mix. European programs have come hard up against a very basic fact. Where people stay in an area long enough, they grow roots.
Actually due to the death of organized labor in many fields, there certainly are. Many kinds of work which have never paid living wages, such as seasonal agricultural work
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