It’ll look like a place where a lot less harassment and abuse happens. Sounds like a better place to me.
(Is there something hard to understand about this??)
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Just as a thought experiment…
Let’s assume LCK takes the steps needed to repair the damage he did (or was done by others)… And then tells the world about it. Is that any less self serving?
Now, what if no one ever knows he does that (neither he nor anyone else ever tells anyone but those directly affected). How is that evaluated?
As I say, just a thought experiment. I don’t have the answers. Just questions
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You seem to have a hard time understanding what Let’s make something like 25%–50% of the entire adult population fuck off implies.
Yep. They do. And many don’t get prosecuted. I would like to live in a world where they did, and they got held sharply to account. But that is a big ask. Maybe that’s not realistic, maybe I shouldn’t assume such a radical success of #MeToo over the long term (you know, given the long history of patriarchy), but what is the long term aim of the movement, if not a radical holding to account of sexual abusers and rapists if “they can still get other jobs?” Taking down high-profile men is fine and all, but I’d like to see justice across the board.
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Yeah, that was the moment I started to really sour on his stuff. Yeah the show tried to do a 180 and try to lampshade it a bit but the damage is still out there. I think willful blindness is probably a great description of this.
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The problem is society itself; we live in a world where it’s been ‘okay’ to treat one full half of the population as ‘lesser beings’ because they aren’t as physically strong as the other half, for thousands upon thousands of years.
There’s no easy answer to such ingrained, systemic oppression, but change has to start somewhere…
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meh it’s not like anyone is owed a career in performance. So as far as I’m concerned he can fuck right off. I’ve survived worse, so can he, and if he can’t it’s still no concern of mine.
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Are most men guilty of sexism, poor judgement and objectifying women? Yes. Are most guilty of what could be considered a sex offense, and could therefore be a registered sex offender? I have a difficult time believing that would be >50%.
I feel like this is heading into a separate discussion of what actually constitutes a sex offense, but taking your estimate at face value, yeah, the world might be a better place without those sex offenders, and we can talk after they’ve all served sentences.
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Hmmmm. Coincidence, or . . . ?
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One of the frustrating things about Louis CK is that he clearly does have enough social awareness to know the right thing to do, he just doesn’t do it.
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I agree with a lot of what the article posted said.
At the very end she said, “common ground can be found if men recognize their damaging behavior, admit it plainly and clearly without caveat, and take sincere steps to make amends”.
I thought in the case of Louis C.K. he did the first part (with a preemptive strike), though I am not sure he has taken the 2nd step. She mentioned the AA concept of “living amends”. I am not sure if it falls under this term or if it is a separate step, but there is a process where you acknowledge and confront the harm your actions have caused other people.
So this and the suggestion of using your time/money/influence towards related programs makes a lot of sense to me. Her example of a friend who killed someone drunk driving is a good one.
It will be interesting what kind of programs crop up. And while we are focusing on the rich and famous, honestly, they will be fine. Unless Louis blew all his money on coke, he could probably survive on what he has. But for every Louis CK, you have 10,000 Joe Schmos. They aren’t going to have the same level of Ostracization. The world is vast and unless you’re in some very small, tight net career, you can probably start anew. So the whole concern about them not being able to make a living is probably mostly unfounded.
That’s a good question. When people serve jail time, we tend to say “they paid their debt to society”. But there are MANY, MANY sins (both major and minor) we commit that we either get away with or get caught but never face any real consequences. Almost all of us have done things at one point we are ashamed about. MOST of us learn from this and avoid repeating our mistakes. Others keeping doing the same shit over and over.
I don’t have a solution either, but I think continued calling out of behavior as not acceptable is the only way to get said actions to become less and less common. Indeed just how social norms has made some of these actions “acceptable” at one point in time, social norms is what is going to make it “unacceptable”.
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As per the article, the damage can never be repaired.
I can see where it comes off as self-serving, but he doesn’t need to tell the world.
I think some are looking for some sort of test by which it’s okay to let public figures back into the limelight. I picture eager fans waiting for the results to be announced so they can go to a Louis CK show with a clean conscience. It will always be a personal judgement, not one where society goes “Louis, thanks, you’re good to go!” I guess if enough people support him and the work he’s done to fix things, then he can try to eke out a career as a comedian again. And yes, if you support him after his rehab period, you should be ready to defend that support. But Louis CK is never owed that support by anyone.
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That’s kind of evidenced in his “Of course, but maybe…” skit.
Knowing what the right thing is and intentionally choosing to do the opposite is some straight anti-social shit… and I say that as someone who loved that bit.
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Is this actually a goal of the movement? I think the point is to raise awareness about how common the experience has been for women, and for women to let each other know they are not alone. Job loss and social ostracization seem to be a by-product in high-profile cases where the perps have been named (mostly Hollywood/Entertainment industry).
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There’s is a circle/cycle of violence, often, but I do know a lot of female survivors of rape/assault/harassment, who are not themselves, afaik, rapists/assailants/harassers. I believe that they make up a huge part of the world population. I believe there are plenty of people who don’t have a history of abuse who attack/take advantage of authority because they can, without much in the way of repercussions. And there’s the issue of people who will use their history as an excuse to be abusive. That said prisons should be more rehabilitative, less punitive. Rehabilitation for perpetrators is great, but, again, is not as important as opportunities for survivors to heal. Rehabilitation of a celebrity’s celebrity status is the least important of any of these issues.
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By all accounts he was fairly successful. I’d wager he banked more than pretty much everyone on this board ( and good for you if you did better) so I think with the success he’s seen already, retirement is in order.
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Men, please try to curb your desire to make having liked his comedy something you can feel comfortable about, again. And if you’re thinking “but what if it happened to me?” please do comment with that, because then we have fair warning that you are the type to whip your dick out at us when you feel “safe”, and we know ahead of time to avoid you. If you would never actually consider doing that, it’s not going to happen to you.
This whole stunt shows he’s learned nothing. Second chances should go to people who can demonstrate that they’ve earned them. No automatic forgiveness.
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“It’s scary that a person’s whole life and career can be taken down by a hashtag.”
Uh, not half as scary as knowing all the men around you feel entitled to inflict violence upon you whenever they please and you would have no recourse…
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Addressing Black: When you do something reprehensible, the onus is on you to find a path back to social acceptance. What is not on you is the decision of when society is ready to accept you again. That happens when it happens, if it happens at all.
I don’t know how all of these men live their lives, but the thought hasn’t ever even occurred to me to expose myself to another person, or to do anything remotely of the sort. I was staggered with disbelief when I was first exposed to the kinds of mindsets that produce that behavior, and I am still staggered that anybody whatsoever tries to defend or excuse it.
The undercurrent I feel in so many of the apologist comments says, “oh god, when will things just go back to normal.”
Never, asshole. It shouldn’t have ever been that way in the first place.
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Uh, not half as scary as knowing all the men around you feel entitled to inflict violence upon you whenever they please and you would have no recourse…
Well, yeah. I really find It bizarre but a scary common idea to blame the movement but ignoring what that thing is about.
Also when I make a sarcastic rant with a turn around I always agonize that people might miss the part where I kick the first paragraph down in a fit of sense.
I find people like Louis bizarre, I never had the urge to whip my dick out around co-workers like not doing it was some force of will. I’m gay and friends accused me of being asexual in the past and when I see stories like this I wonder if It’s just me that doesn’t want to sexually dominate strangers.
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