seeing as how 50% of the people involved in this video are dead, I would say that is a pretty bad track record
That is, I’d say, a ridiculous bar to set for a hobby. Pretty much nobody’s recreation meets your standard.
(sorry, I don’t see how to make the reply show your name, as you did for me)
Sorry, I didn’t say that was my standard for a hobby. That’s my standard for things that are foolish activities. When you’re doing something that risky there should be more at stake than a thrill or whatever.
So, please don’t extrapolate my comments about a couple of ridiculous activities to mean that we shouldn’t ride bikes or let our kids play soccer. That’s quite a leap and I didn’t suggest anything near that.
Ok. What is the risk level that triggers your must be “advancing science or knowledge or whatever” standard?
Having a pool in your backyard (a leading cause of death in young children)? Owning a gun (a major factor in successful suicides in men)? Riding a motorcycle (a method of transportation that is many times more lethal per mile traveled than cars)? Competitive cheerleading (a higher rate of concussions than tackle football)?
And how much risk do you find tolerable?
…
I personally would not tolerate the risks of being a wingsuit pilot. But I can’t bring myself to condemn them either. People who live in glass houses, and all that.
Did you miss the part where I said I wasn’t advocating making these illegal? It’s just like, my opinion, man. 
Your question about risk is a good one (and thank you for getting into your love of hiking) is a good one. Suffice it to say, I’m not going to get into a protracted discussion here, but I’ll say that a reasonable standard would say that the risk of your hobby isn’t anywhere near wingsuit flying or climbing Everest.
I think its fair to say that some hobbies are so risky that they’re irresponsible to partake in. If the risk means a significant chance of death then I think it’s reasonable to say that also makes them selfish.
You’re not the first one to miss the point about advancing science. I don’t mean that it’s required for a hobby. Rather, a risk of death is a reasonable or understandable risk when going to space or the depths of the Marianas trench.
I think you read a heck of a lot into what I said. But, if you’ve had people hassle you for the your hiking and backpacking endeavors, I totally understand a defensive posture.
In the end, thank you for the thoughtful reply. 
You’re missing the point (or I’m failing to present it better or it’s just a point you don’t agree with) 
A high risk of death is understandable when pursuing knowledge/science/the greater good. So, astronauts, doctors in hot zones, etc… take on a bit of significant risk (voluntarily) but it’s understandable given what they’re doing.
Things like climbing Everest are just vanity.
So, while I’m not prepared to lay out significant arguments about why playing AYSO is OK but flying wingsuits through canyons are 150 MPH isn’t, let’s say if the fatality rate starts to approach 2% per attempt, we’ll end competitive cheerleading.
Leap to conclusions much?
Because I criticized 2 out of the millions of sports/hobbies/activities that people can do I am condemning people as cowardly automatons?
No, hardly ever. But I am told that I do ask many annoying questions![quote=“kmccrory, post:46, topic:85238”]
Because I criticized 2 out of the millions of sports/hobbies/activities that people can do I am condemning people as cowardly automatons?
[/quote]
That sounds too judgemental to me. I am always fascinated by what motivates people. Survival is such a huge a priori assumption for most people who I talk with that I find that asking them to explicitly reason out why they go on living can yield interesting answers and insights. The most prevalent being that they do it without thinking about it very much.
This is a pretty thoughtful reply and I appreciate it.
You’re right, my comments are a big judgmental, but when I read about these types of tragedies, I’m filled w/ sadness for the families as they are 100% unnecessary and there are tons of other adventurous, adrenlin-raising sports that don’t have such a high mortality rate.
Cheers!
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Fatality rates per se for wignsuits seem to be unavailable, but I found this quote from Jeb Corliss, a leading wingsuiter
How many friends,” I asked, “have you lost?”“A lot,” he says. “I’m not sure about the number. Of my close friends, I would say 50 percent.”
Sorry, that’s a little crazy. I kayaked low class 5 whitewater for a decade and didn’t lose anyone, never witnessed a fatality, and was only in the area of a fatality a few times. And several of those were freak occurrences on easy rivers. How can you lose 50% of your friends and not get the message? I get that the experience may be addictive, but even heroin or crack doesn’t have that attrition rate.
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“I don’t think it should be illegal, but…” sounds suspiciously like “I’m not a racist, but…” and similar denials prefacing a controversial statement. Leading off by distancing yourself from the position that you’re afraid to be seen as espousing is not the best way to make your point. Your statement would have been both stronger and less offensive without the disclaimer, which invites the reader to think that which you dare not say.
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