State lawmakers want children to work in bars on school nights to fill "labor shortage" caused by people refusing to work for a pittance

Oh yeah I’m very aware of the answers to all my questions based on highschool social studies classes as taught in the 90s and a few decades of life experience since then. :slight_smile:

The clear message is “THE MARKET IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IS BAD (except when it doesn’t give us and our cronies money and power in which case ignore what we just said because we’re actively harming people who you are afraid of/don’t look like you)!”



Another example, let’s say I have a trucking business and I’m doing deliveries over a certain route for a certain price. As fuel prices rise, that route no longer breaks even. I try to increase the price I charge to my customer, but they say, “no we don’t want this service at a higher price.” So I go to the government and say there’s a “fuel shortage” and they need to somehow make available a lot more fuel so fuel prices will go down.

It’s absurd. Either I find new ways to convince my customers to pay higher prices, like offering some improvement of service, or I find more efficient trucks, or I stop doing that route. There’s no labor shortage. Bars can find workers. At $100 an hour they will have a line of people willing to work. They just don’t want to pay what the market rate is.

And going back to the bars example, if some bar did close because it’s not viable, then that further helps the labor “shortage” because now all the people who worked at that bar are available to work elsewhere.


I love this idea. I actually think it should apply to all minimum wage workers.


Are they also going to give 14-year olds the right to vote?


They want to give the 14 year olds the right to vote 11 years after their 14th birthday.


If the minor over-serves/serves another minor, who is on the hook for any resultant fines?

Ideally the under-aged server would not be liable for over-serving/serving a minor and that responsibility for these fines/jail time would fall to the establishment, along with all (current) hiring managers for the establishment, with the minor released from these penalties. If it is a chain, then ALL employees with hiring authority would be subject to these sanctions.

Until that happens, that is a hard no from me.

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Truly the party of family values.

–Syd Hoff in 1935


It’s the latter.
In my lifetime, good paying “working class” jobs existed where you could actually live a life above the poverty line. I don’t think that even exists anymore.
I worked most of the 80’s and all of the 90’s in a grocery store union job. You weren’t living the high life on those wages, but you could afford to live. And those types of jobs helped set a baseline, IMO.
I made $22/hour before I left in early 2000. In today’s dollars, that’s $38/hour. And no one in any grocery store union or not makes close to that now. I think they top out in the highest income areas around 24.
It’s shocking to me that we’re talking about a $15/hour minimum wage, FFS. In pretty much any major metro area, that’s literally nothing.


Maybe companies need to start paying living wages for ALL employees, regardless of how “skilled” a position is. If a company could not pay their distributors for the goods they need to sell their services or products to the public, they would not get to pay less for it - they would quickly find their way out of a business. People who do the physical labor that allows you to turn a profit should not be short-changed either.

Maybe those “mom and pop” stores are not good business people at all and should lose their business if they can’t keep up with the cost of labor…

No. The “universe” isn’t telling you that. Market forces for labor is telling you that.

And yes, I’d argue that gathering and entertainment spots for the public IS necessary, as I doubt there has been a society in history that has not had them. Don’t foist whatever own morality is on the rest of society. If you think bars are pointless, don’t go, but don’t you wring your hands and pretend to be making a value-neutral argument about the “market” (which itself is not a force of nature, but a social relation), when it’s clear you’re embracing the same BS argument that the Temperance movement made in the 19th century.


If even the kids don’t want to fill those jobs, they’ll have to figure out a way to draft them.


Mandatory job training classes in school. You know it’s coming.


“Johnny, hurry up! You don’t want to be late for your indentured servitude!”


With the recent forced birth laws, they’ll have a steady stream of workers on tap.


I personally like bars and go occasionally! They have existed since the earliest days of civilization in the Fertile Crescent and I’m a fan. I still don’t regard them as necessary. Or at least, no one particular bar anywhere is necessary so much that minors need to work in it, or where I would say there’s a labor shortage if they can’t find enough cheap workers to stay open.

Well yeah, I’m making a joke like someone might say, “I couldn’t find parking anywhere, so that was the universe telling me not to go shopping that day.” Obviously, it’s market forces which are as you say, a social relation.

I have no idea where you get that. I believe in moderation but not temperance. I had an IPA today.

… hey, if they can play video games, they can surely pilot a CH-234 Chinook :crazy_face:


I don’t care what you think. I spend much of my time studying those kinds of spaces where people gather to commune outside of work and home. You’re just flat wrong, sorry. That is very much neo-liberal ideology shining through on your part there.

Sure Jan GIF

Your words and the words on the temperance movement.


Everyone here posting here consistently develops a ‘track record’; the community at large tends to take note.


Social sciences are news to you? I guess that fits with saying things should only exist if some wealthy owner can figure out how to run them for maximum profit. That leaves out a lot of valuable things though.


It still is one of the choices. It’s not too late. But you might have to make a choice to either change or get better at lying to yourself if you pursue it.

AND REALLY, you can do that without a job too so… :person_shrugging:


Real billionaire oligarchs are enabled and facilitated by ‘temporarily embarrassed millionaires’ who desperately believe that one day, they too, will be ‘in the club.’

Yet that day never seems to come, and meanwhile the rest of us have to deal with those delusional tools.

Same as it ever was.