gah, yeah. My mistake.
1 Like
this. 1000X this. Men in Black, RED, The Crow, Ghost World, 30 days of night, The rocketeer. It’s far easier to make a decent movie without the weight of the world on it’s shoulders that the big franchise comics have.
5 Likes
Here is a novel idea…go see the movie yourself instead of relying on someone else’s review.
3 Likes
Yeah; they are getting a bit, as @daneel said, formulaic.
Half of them are just dealing with problems that the heroes themselves caused in a previous movie (I mean, Civil War is cleaning up a mess made in Age of Ultron, which is cleaning up a mess made in Avengers, which is cleaning up messes made in both Thor and Captain America, and all three Iron Man movies are about Tony cleaning up after his own mistakes). And Infinity War is, of course, going to be about the gems and villains littered all over the previous movies.
One of the things that lifted Guardians of the Galaxy above one of some of the more recent movies is that the main conflict of the film is not their problem. They didn’t cause the problem, it’s not their job to fix the problem, and they can probably run far enough away to escape the problem for long enough to die of old age (not that any of them were ever going to die of old age, with their lifestyle).
I think that the Marvel movies need more of that. Just, not so much that it becomes formulaic again.
7 Likes
I haven’t gone to see all of them in the theater. Yay Seattle Public Library DVD selection. I am currently behind but I do love so far the character interaction in the movies if not the plots so much. Even when my above mentioned run of Justice League got some weird plots the way they all interacted with each other was the fun of it. I look at all of these as modern versions of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon which are just as dumb but still a lot of fun to watch even now. I will probably Suicide Squad on DVD when the library gets it but I sure can’t afford $15 for a viewing right now.
2 Likes
With all the big Cinematic Universe stuff going on, they really weren’t sure what to do with outliers like Guardians or Deadpool. For the latter, the studio was like come on, your script is just dick jokes and murder, what about the Infinity Gems, the bigger universe? and the filmmakers were stubborn enough that the studio was like fine here’s a few million to make your dumb dick joke murder movie and oops! It was one of the biggest moneymakers they ever had.
The worry now is that the studio will want to make everything a dick joke film geared at middle schoolers.
4 Likes
DC used to be my company of choice. Jeanette Kahn knew her stuff. Good comics make good movies. Marvel has a plan and a vision and it shows. They earned their success. They don’t need to sabotage DC because they are doing it pretty much all by themselves. They remind of some swaggering and arrogant Turk having a midlife crisis: they keep rebooting and incessant do-overs, yet keep making the same mistakes. The Killing Joke should have been put to rest years ago, but they keep parading it out. Enough. It is vile dreck, and I don’t care if it is Alan Moore’s vile dreck. They keep doing what Marvel does, and not keep their eyes on their own paper.
And while the 80s comic Suicide Squad was very good, this permutation doesn’t look all that. Street walking kinderwhore Adam’s Rib Harley Quinn is more appropriate for a 70s B-list sexploitation flick. I never could stand her origin story. Will Smith’s Dead Shot seems to be the only promising thing to come out of this hot mess, but the problem with DC isn’t Marvel, but the fact there is no cohesion or vision to unify it.
If people are panning this movie, there is a reason and they have a right to dislike it and express their dislike, just as there will be those who like the movie and they also have the right to express it.
I completely gave up DC. I stopped caring who was writing it. I stopped caring who was drawing it. I even stopped caring which characters were being thrown together, and had been reading it without stop since I was four years old.
If I stopped reading, then I stopped watching. The love affair was gone and Marvel didn’t convince me to stop, because DC did that all by itself.
Harley was initially introduced in Batman: the Animated Series, and while she had a valley-girl accent, was one of the most intelligent characters on the show. Once, as a present for the Joker, she actually defeated and captured Batman, something that the Joker had been unable to do (of course, the Joker’s ego couldn’t handle that, so he let Batman go so that he could capture the Caped Crusader himself). Harley’s costume (unlike, say, Ivy’s), covered her body from head-to-toe, except her face (painted white).
She was a psychiatrist at Arkham, who fell in love with the Joker, and was seduced into in an abusive relationship with him. She broke herself out of that relationship, dumped “Mistah J,” and won her independence, often teaming up with Poison Ivy and working their own schemes together.
Now, what the comics and the video games have done with her character since then, I can’t say, but she certainly didn’t start out as dumb, sex-kitten “jerk off material” (I can’t really argue with “psycho”, although much of that is the Joker’s fault).
13 Likes
The Deadpool movie wasn’t actually part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe since 20th Century Fox still owns the movie rights for that character. For the time being he’s just part of the X-Men continuity (if you can apply the word “continuity” to a franchise that is filled with retconns and alternate timelines).
3 Likes
…well, at least a remarkably wealthy Uncle Phil.
1 Like
Oh, good point. Man, that’s a messy bunch of rights issues, I can never keep it straight. I love the fact that Marvel isn’t allowed to use the word “mutants”.
2 Likes
Yes, this current incarnation of Harley is pretty insulting. I also didn’t care for the sexed-up version they put into the Arkam video game series. As a rule, women who regularly engage in acrobatic combat don’t wear corsets.
6 Likes
I hope not. It worked well for Deadpool cause that is just that character and it is a nice and fun tongue in cheek poke at the genre as well. Dick jokes can be fun in the right setting but otherwise get boring fast.
6 Likes
THAT’S SOME BULLSHIT RIGHT THERE!!!
3 Likes
Ok - but DC had several hits between 1979-1992. Some misses too, but even their misses were more successful than Marvels.
Their TV stuff was superior as well. Batman the Animated series is still a shining star.
I think maybe part of the success of Marvel is that with CGI it is easier to make super hero movies. Though many of their films have great stories.
The problem is, and the reason DC sucks and some of Marvels stuff is meh, is the characters and action alone can’t carry the film. You still need a decent story.
1 Like
I’m not so sure anymore. Between these two most recent movies, the scuttle-butt over the Killing Joke animated thing, and what’s become typical of their comics releases (and reboots), I’m starting to get suspicious that DC is deliberately targeting and marketing to the whole Gamergate/new misogynist/sick puppy/keep your black vaginas out of my [insert media property here] crowd. If you pay attention to that sort of thing, those guys will vociferously back and argue for the superiority of just about anything. No matter how objectively bad, and often times in bad faith (ie knowing its bad). Provided it fits their particular preferences in terms of being just for their jerk water selves.
Its sort of weird to see Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm take a fairly active approach towards better inclusion and moving away from past mistakes and what have. Only to see DC, just not. They have to see what Marvel is doing, and even if they don’t understand it, realize its working ($$$). But they seem to be actively doing the opposite. Not even just numskull stepping in it and fucking up, Marvel still does that, but they’re visibly trying. DC not so much on the trying. I’m starting to suspect that to differentiate themselves from Marvel, and maybe capture parts of the audience being left behind, they’re going back to their own habit of retrenching to and milking the establish “hardcore fans”. If you look around (but not too hard) the “hardcore” group of lifelong, and most vocal (in terms of anger), fans are the sort of tools who think Harley Quinn without her vag hanging out is some sort of sell out.
So I think this is about ethics in comics journalism.
Most of the harm from that is down to Publishers tying payment/bonuses to metacritic score. So its not the aggregators that are at fault. Necessarily. It’d be trivialish, for them to shift off scored metrics. Simple average of good to bad reviews and the like. But the big publishers like it the way it is. Simple metric for quality/sales however inaccurate. Just like TV wont get off the Nielsons, which have always been a poor way to track things. And ever more so as the industry changes.
I tried and FAILED to watch Murderbot VS Jockstrap. It was incomprehensible. I no longer plan to see or read anything they put out in any fashion that gives them the moneys. At least until I’m reasonably assured something is worth while, which will take a lot at this point.
Which “Serious fans” of Superman want to see him depicted as murder Jesus? I was a dedicated DC reader for years, they’ve chased many, many, many of us off with precisely this sort of shit.
From Zak Snyder? Did you watch that trash? His superman movie was, vacant and nihilistic. And Killrat vs Speedo barely functions as a film. It doesn’t possess the basic elements of story telling. It is a series of pretty shots strung together with barely coherent nonsense. It offended me as a human being. More over the whole approach is nothing more than an extension of DC’s ongoing love affair with grit and past hits from the late 80’s and early 90’s. They were hammering this shit in the comics for years to the wide complaint of nearly everyone but their most dedicated fans. Or more specifically dedicated fans of that approach. A fair lot of the “hardcore” dedicated fans of comics in general ran off in search of indies or landed at marvel when they started to get delightful and weird about a decade back. Its not a bold experiment. Its crassly sticking with what worked decades ago when comics sales were higher over all. But most of the money is in movies and TV (specifically Marvel’s Movies and TV) these days.
Plus they shot Ted Kord in the face. Fuck those guys.
Again which fans? Every Batman or Superman fan I know. Guys reading and collecting the comics from way back. Huge fans of Batman, and weirdly large group of “I have it tattooed on my taint” level Superman fans. The sort of people who buy 3 variant covers and a matching maquette, and see every movie with the faint wiff of nerd on it. All of those guys are super pissed. I’m not quite that “hardcore” if it matters. But I can list obscure also ran and b-list heroes with the best of them. And I’ve been sorta boycotting DC for years. Now I’m legit done with them.
The Flash only lasted one season. Its well loved by certain fans and maintains a surprisingly good reputation, but it wasn’t a success in terms of ratings or money. Swamp thing did a little better. 3 seasons and was apparently the top rated show on USA. But at a time where being the top rated show on USA meant doing better than re-runs of Gilligan’s Island. It was hated by critics didn’t attract a mainstream audience, probably didn’t make much money, but has become something of a camp classic (and I loved it as a kid).
Lois and Clark is kind of the only unmitigated success there. Four years on a major network. As what was basically a prime time soap opera at a time where those were big money for TV and a driver in terms of pop-culture (Remember ER? That shit was HUGE). It drove a big spike in interest and fondness for Superman. And spawned a shit ton of merchandise. I remember insanely expensive Lois and Clark collectible Barbies, lunch boxes, and mother fucking glassware. It was big, briefly.
Sexy Harley debuted with DC’s relaunched line “New 52” (basically), to be greeted by a lot of discontent by fans of hers. Despite that there were parts of the run that were really well liked and well regarded. I think DC cancelled the book. Least ways that’s what they seem to do whenever one of the new versions of their Female characters escapes from the hamfisted grim dark and T&A approach to attract new fans (see also Batgirl).
That is not, and never was a valley girl accent. Its an exaggerated Brooklyn/NY accent. Inspired by Arleen Sorkin, her original voice actress and friend of the character’s creator. Who apparently actually talks like that. The character became popular quickly, but a fair bit of her continued popularity is down to female fans. Those early episodes were some of the most subtle, brutal and compelling depictions of abuse I’ve ever seen in the broader culture. Shifting the character towards jerk material (a legit complaint from what I’ve seen) stings pretty bad.
The fact they even made that still breaks my brain. Little known, desperately weird cult favorite series, recently relaunched as desperately weird new series. Something of a fan favorite, but not well know even in comic circles. Helmed by a bonkers director most famous for his roots in Troma. And it legitimately turned out to be one of the best action flicks to come out this decade. But it is directly tied to the series shit. It gives you the back story for the infinity stones, features one of them, and serves as a first introduction to Marvel’s weird space shit. Which is the weirdest space shit. I’d have to say Antman is the one they have and had the least clue what to do with. Its fun, but connections are loose. Feels more like one of the TV shows than the rest of the films. I also think the Thor films have been outliers. Neither of the already out ones are particularly good. And aside from introducing a few things (including one of those stones) there’s little direct connection.
2 Likes
I have absolutely no idea what that means.
Yes. Thank you for your opinion. I’m sorry his movie ‘offended you as a human being’.
Everyone I know, personally. My friends in other cities. Friends of friends. I heard a lot of praise along with a lot of this sort of “super pissed” anger (as you put it). Different folks can dig different things for totally different reasons. It doesn’t make a movie objectively bad.
To be clear, I had my issues with it, definitely. Like I said, it’s not FUN. It’s dull, slow, ponderous. The story has weird issues and plot holes that make no sense. I loathed their take on Luthor. And there’s complete WTF moments that’ve turned out to be victims of bad editing (like Supe’s moment in the courtroom). But I appreciated that they were trying something genuinely different than the Marvel movies, style wise.
I stand corrected.
3 Likes
Ah a new comic villain Nazi Grammar!
Yes - Winter Soldier had a great dark 70’s conspiracy movie vibe. It reminded me of Three Days of the Condor & The Parallax View (a great unremembered film!). And - had lot’s on non cgi action & a great old school car chase.
2 Likes
