Sure, but some one going somewhere might have no interest in having a conversation. And many women indulge men, because it can lead to an uncomfortable or even dangerous situation for them. And we don’t know that UNTIL we are in the middle of it.
Once again, no one said that. You keep talking as if the primary victim here are men who wish to strike up a conversation with women, with the goal being getting a date or a hook up. You seem to be unfazed about how women’s experiences often make us feel unsafe on a daily basis walking down the street. You seem to think that you are always entitled to talk to women, out in public, because she might be receptive to it, ignoring the fact that once again, a public street is NOT a singles bar.
Not what was said. Both are wrong, no one said they’re identical. And that tangent was in response to your partial defense of the creeper move of physically maneuvering oneself to impose on a stranger’s path as a potentially viable method of flirting.
If you want to walk that back, I won’t stand in your way.
Fine, it’s a creep move. With this most deft handling, it’s at best marginal and risky. I wish he would have addressed the fact that women talk to a lot of creeps and blocking ‘escape routes’ even for a moment is bound to trigger panic at least some of the time.
This is what you don’t seem to understand. He’s a PUA, a person who gets lonely chumps to pay him to demonstrate predatory behavior. People like him don’t give a crap about how their prey feel as long as it reinforces their marketing image as someone who gets laid a lot.
A creep move is just plain wrong. There’s no calculus in which creeping’s benefits ever morally outweigh it’s costs. None. Never. Nadda. Zero. Zip. Zilch.
No, I know PUA culture is a nasty beast. I won’t deny that at all-- even some of the ‘founders’ are saying that it’s just a sad way to be.
The previews of this game though don’t show the dude manipulating women (in general) but just being like “hey, don’t grab women, that is bad, will not get you anywhere, and will probably get you arrested”
It STILL is making assumptions about women and men’s right to dominate them and treat them like objects - it’s still about MEN’s desires as being paramount and nothing more. Women are human beings, not objects to be won. I don’t really understand why that’s somehow hurting men. It’s STILL about “getting pussy” not about trying to cultivate healthy relationships with women - which, BTW, can include strings free, fun hook ups.
Why defend it? What do you think is “good” dating advice? Why isn’t it be up front and honest about what you want from any kind of relationship, listen to the person you’re with and treat them with basic human decency, and find an appropriate time and place to talk to a woman? How is any of that hard to grok or somehow disagreeable?
Does that one count? The list hasn’t been added to in ages…
Wow.
The uncanny ability to make this thread all about yourself is really impressive.
No one said or even implied that, like Jon Snow, “you know no nothing.”
Above all else, in all your poor justifications, deflections and attempts at derailment, here’s the point you seem to be going out of your way to intentionally miss:
No one is owed any time or attention by anyone else.
It doesn’t matter if you’re the nicest guy in the world, or if you have the most altruistic of intentions; each person is still allowed to determine for themselves who they wish to interact with, or not.
A steadfast refusal to acknowledge that agency, that sovereignty over one’s self speaks to a very antisocial, self-absorbed state of mind.
No one said that. No one called you a misogynist and no one said discussion is bad. You’re showing yourself singularly unwilling to engage with the issues that we have with YOUR argument. A discussion is not you talking and everyone agreeing with you. It’s an exchange of ideas where you might not get the others agree with you.
I don’t get the sense that there’s been an attempt made. Position papers, a suggestion that I get added to BoingBoing’s trolley list and some snarky memes… congratulations, it’s just another internet forum.
Really? I’ve asked you specific questions and challenged specific positions that you held, and that’s not engaging you seriously? I’ve never called you misogynistic and never yelled or didn’t take you seriously. Or do I not just count?
Well, then tell me what I misunderstood. You seem to be defending the game as promoting more positive street interactions with women. Me (and others) are saying that it’s still creepy and unacceptable, and often makes women feel unsafe.
Please tell me what I’ve missed. Maybe you’re not being clear in your points.
