But shouldn’t women feel flattered whenever a man finds her attractive… other wise, how will she know she has worth in our society? /s
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You are either severely misreading me or have not read my earlier posts.
You’ve defended the game, because you say it teaches men that they should talk to women on the street rather than grab them. This is whether the women want that or not.
I’m saying that both are pretty unacceptable, because people want to get where they are going, not be either physically assaulted or catcalled or being generally interrupted to be told that a man finds her attractive. Their opinions are entirely irrelevant to the woman going about her business.
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That’s the thing about interacting with other people. It’s hard to tell until you get a signal from them one way or the other. Imagine this is the grocery store or whatever whatever. It’s not inherently wrong to try to strike up a conversation with someone, but it’s important to be sensitive to their receptiveness.
I think you can safely assume that a woman walking down the street is probably just going about her business and wishes to do so unmolested. The street is not a singles bar. You’re making assumptions that can’t be borne out until you start talking to the woman, and by then you’ve already made the assumption that you talking to her is more important than whatever it is that she wants. Maybe, if she looks at you, and says hi to you, that’s a signal that she wants to talk to you. MAYBE. But if you’re stopping her to tell her how much you like her dress, without her looking at you or talking to you or even LOOKING YOUR WAY, then, most likely, you’ve interrupted her day and probably made her feel unsafe.
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THIS. Seriously. You wanna get your bone on with the ladies, or guys or whatever brand of human makes you interested go to a singles bar or such where you know that is what everyone is there for. And even there if they say NO then move the fuck on.
I am dense enough I would probably miss that I am being hit on even in that environment but I am not so dense to think this game is simply about telling insecure men how to talk to women.
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If a woman walking down the street isn’t signaling that she wants to interact with you then don’t assume that means you have a green light.
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Which is why it appeals to people with very poor self-esteem.
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Are you disappointed, comrade?
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I have been married twice. I only wish now I had such an informative game to help me.
I bet with this game I could of been married at least five times.
Cheers!
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Yes, although the word has several slightly different meanings depending on context. It can be a now obsolete legal term for promising marriage to induce a woman to intercourse. It can mean manipulating someone in a deceptive or abusive manner, which is what it means in the title of this game. And it can mean doing non-deceptive non-abusive things to cultivate a physically intimate mood between two people who are already lovers, which is what people usually mean in trashy erotic fiction when they say seduce me since most people aren’t asking to be deceived or abused. PUAs never mean the latter, and their very deliberate attempts to obscure the in reality quite bright line of consent is them lying to excuse their lying.
As with everything, consent is the difference between right and wrong. A woman (or anyone for that matter) going out in public isn’t de facto consent for strangers to encroach on their business or violate their right to be left alone. Unless the person is clearly signalling otherwise, and unless you’re aboslutely confident you know how to read those signals, simply don’t. It’s that easy.
Now, this game, the shit this douchebag is demonstrating, isn’t correctly reading those signals. It’s how to get away with harassment without getting arrested or worse. Pretending that this game has something positive to teach isn’t just conducive to harassment, it’s also a disservice to people who are not adept at reading those signals by suggesting to them that this game has something to teach them which it does not. There’s nothing wrong with being socially maladroit, but seeking advice from PUAs is like going to Jordan Belfort for financial advice.
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I was disappointed at being shouted down rather than rebutted, yes. The latter finally came along, fortunately.
I’m not totally satisfied in the rebuttal because it leaves the question open of “what do you tell the guy who actually does this stuff and thinks of women as a thing to get”. Like just saying “you suck forever and ever and have no shot at redemption” is not a path to betterment for anyone who can’t see the way forward. You’re essentially asking them to just cease to exist.
I won’t say that anything but the lightest application of this guys conversational techniques is ok, because it’s not, really. I just can’t help but feel sorry for the poor sad clod who can’t operate in the world like a human being and needs something like this.
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No one shouted at you, and people disagreeing with you is not the “death of diversity of opinion” (cue fainting couch). Dramatic hyperbole will be ridiculed. As will strawman arguments such as this…
No one has done anything of the sort and you pretending otherwise won’t make it so. What has been said is that getting advice from PUAs is counterproductive. Moreover, strangers aren’t those people’s damn tutors. Your family, friends, teachers, mentors and people in your life who care about you have a responsibility to teach you how not to be an entitled predatory dick. Let’s put it this way. Say you know someone who commits petty fraud and sees nothing wrong with it, truly doesn’t see why it’s wrong. It’s not their prospective victims’ job to correct them and they are responsible for the consequences of their actions. Sending them to instructional materials on how to be better at getting away with fraud is not helping anyone but the huckster selling them.
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True, but that was in direct reply to your “Bye Felicia” GIF, which is not a debate or an argument. It’s super rude and I haven’t shown disrespect to anyone here.
Maybe I’m just overly optimistic, or maybe I haven’t seen the full horror of this game, but in general his advice on what not to do seems to be designed to hand-hold guys back from some really awful behavior.
Saying “please don’t treat women as sexual objects” isn’t the same as saying “please cease to exist.”
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I figured as much.
It was a response to your announcing in a huff you were taking your ball and going home, an announcement I was all but positive you would flounce on.
Consider the source.
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No one said that they are beyond redemption. But giving them tactics that are only slightly less creepy doesn’t solve the problem either. I wish it were enough to say that women are NOT objects to be salivated over and won, but given that women have been saying this for all of human history and it’s still not sinking into some men’s heads, what are we supposed to do? Just accept this rank bullshit of being relegated to secondary status? Why is that acceptable to you or anyone else?
the point stands that people (all people, not just women) walking down the street are not there for the edification of others. Period. Full stop. A street is not a singles bar. It’s a public location where people are more often than not going about their business, not looking for hook ups. You don’t have the right to interrupt those other people in case a woman MIGHT be receptive to your advances.
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To be fair, to those for whom equality feels like oppression, cease to exist and cease and desist sound a lot alike. /s
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That was me calling out the strawman of “trying to strike up a conversation is the same as catcalling” – which is absurd.
Yes, @anon61221983, it is clearly possible to ‘strike up a conversation’ in an aggressive and unwelcome manner. YES. DEFINITELY, ABSOLUTELY. This is something that requires great care on the rare occasion that it’s even appropriate.
But just saying it’s the same thing, always-- gives people the wrong idea about what you’re trying to say!
It’s this idea of “how do you talk to people who think like this” and bring positive direction into that way of thinking?
“Everything you know is wrong” is usually not a very convincing argument.
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