Awesome. Sad that the bill is only symbolic, but it does help highlight what a sick society the U.S. is.
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Yep. Basically, this is the heart of it. Sickness. So sad all those kids had to die for nothing.
i agree entirely. ( @shaddack said similar as well ). thereâs no reason we have to limit ourselves to an either-or strategy, however.
multiple things will help reduce gun violence: gun regulation and availability of (mental) healthcare and increased opportunities for disadvantaged people.
we donât know how many people who are involved in gun violence â suicide, gang violence, or anything else â originally intended to use their guns for that purpose!
yes: obviously some of the mass shooters bought their guns for the express intent of murder. but other folks?
the âmilitia menâ in oregon, for example. hopefully they stand down without firing a shot, but if they act on their threat of violence: do you think they originally bought their guns for that express purpose? ( answer: of course they didnât. )
we cannot ascribe all crime to âbad peopleâ. this judgement most often happens in hindsight.
regarding actual percentages, we need more stats. i feel all responsible gun owners should be able to rally behind at least this.
random thought, if we did rely on the free-market more: insurance, cap-and-trade gun manufacturing credits, who knows what else â then perhaps those companies at least would begin to gather that data.
Buybacks are about reducing the total number of guns in circulation, not keeping a gun directly out of a criminalâs hands. Itâs indirect, and it is logical if you stop reacting and think about it for two seconds maybe three.
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That is a silly statistic. Logically, the more gun owners per capita, the more gun deaths per capita; as most firearms deaths are suicides, this correlation will always be true.
However, there is no strong correlation between gun owners per capita and total murder rate. Many US states with high gun ownership rates have among the lowest murder rates, lower even than the murder rate in Canada and parts of Europe. Less violent crime, also.
Ever wonder why the sentence âNone of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.â was added to the appropriations bill? Or what else is in the law that prohibits releasing raw ATF gun trace data?
for non-partisan sources, this is the best i could quickly find â which interestingly contradicts what @Mister44 and i both thought about declining gun ownership â at any rate: according to this ( and pretty much everything iâve ever seen ) there is a correlation between gun ownership and gun homicide.
correlation is not causation. iâve argued before, however, that we should view gun violence as an epidemiological issue. we can see the correlation â and since thatâs the best we can do right now, itâs reasonable to act on that. simultaneously we should work on improving our data.
fyi: your link requires registration to read. i understand fear about gun licensing registries. however, i do not believe that a registry would violate the 2nd amendment. ( authorities on the matter have always seemed to hold different views on this. and congress blocks itself from finding out. )
Logical? There are guns just sitting around collecting dust. They arenât going to hurt anyone. Great, you took something that wasnât hurting someone and wouldnât hurt anyone and probably screwed yourself out of some money. But I guess if it makes you feel better, go for it. It is a waste of tax payer money and isnât helping anyone one.
True, but if you look at some detailed stats that some cities put out, most murderers donât just wake up and decide to shoot someone. Most have been arrested before, some many, many times before. It is pretty clear that your average murderer (at least in large cities) was actively involved in other criminal activities before something escalated. Also most VICTIMS of those crime are also involved in illicit activities. It doesnât happen in a vacuum. Yes there are some predatory victims, but a lot of it is criminals killing each other. Those people arenât turning guns into a buy back program. Or if they are, it is selling cheap guns for more than they could sell them for.
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Iâve no interest in refuting the truth of the argument, just pointing out what the argument is.
People want to stop mass shootings. Saying that its not the most prevalent type of gun crime does not address the argument.
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I recall many of them were unhappy with Bush.
A good way to stop mass killings would be to change foreign policy.
Every time I hear Obama talk about this topic I wonder how many innocent lives he has taken through drone strikes alone. I understand he has to sign off on every one that has a chance of killing bystanders.
Obama has no moral high ground on this issue. If you disagree then maybe you are unaware of the sixteen year old American that he murdered:
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âFirst graders,â he said, his eyes drifting to a distant place and
becoming red with tears. The president wiped his eye and paused to
regain his composure. âEvery time I think about those kids, it gets me
mad,â he said.
Regardless of whether youâre a card-carrying Commie or a hood-wearing NRA groupie, that sentence is a fucking embarrassment. Not only is it shitty writing - his eyes drifted right out of his skull, did they? - it has no place in what is ostensibly an article oâ news. People scoff when the right claims the media is in the tank for the left, but you wonât ever see a written handjob like that from the NYT for anyone in the GOP.
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correct. they didnât start out as killers. regardless of their backgrounds, the presence of a gun helped them become so.
hereâs what happened in australia: gun buybacks clearly reduced gun deaths by suicide, and the whole set of their new laws appear to have reduced homicide as well.
i think there are many possible ways to reduce gun violence â gun buybacks are no (ouch) silver bullet â but no matter: every reasonable attempt gets blocked.
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Dammit, I knew I shouldnât have posted. I completely agree with what you wrote except for one thing.
Not having the moral ground is meaningless when exercising power.
If he personally cares or not shouldnât be the thing that stops you from facing a problem. Big or small.
Please note I havenât taken a side, I have very good reason for this (Iâm not a US citizen), I wonât pretend I can offer a solution. All I can do is point out non sequiturs and wish you as fellow happy mutants the best.
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And the gun didnât just magically appear either. THEY had to seek it out. And many of them were already restricted so they had to seek it out through non-legal means. Because their aunt turned in their dead uncles old .38 special wonât stop them from having a girl friend buy them a hi-point at a shop.
Availability helps suicides, that is true. To a degree. How much higher would Japanâs rate be if they had guns?
Australia already had a low gun homicide rate before the laws. Their homicide rate is a bit lower now, but so is the USâs. Certainly not a giant dip one would expect considering their rather drastic measures.
Oh dream on. Thatâs because they give them nice dreamy blowjobs instead. The NYT blew Bush SO hard after 911 and in the lead-ups to two wars.
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sounds like we are agreed:
- implementing buybacks can reduce suicides, and this is desirable.
- removing unused guns, as well as restricting sales of new guns, will make access to guns more difficult
- reduced access to guns makes it more difficult to commit homicides
letâs enact some laws!
Mmm - I didnât really say all that, but ok.
Furthermore no, letâs not enact more laws. We could save many more lives banning booze, cigarettes, and other unhealthy things. But, you know, freedom.
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Iâd still like to see Congress actually do something worthwhile about the issue, and start tackling legislation which addresses the cultural problem with guns, like so: http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/bang-bang-sanity.html
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A horse and buggy?
Iâm thinking about a six legged, steam powered land ship.
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When memebers of the GOP start displaying actual emotions, the NYT will be there to report it.
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