The Answer to the Question "What Happens to a Black Man with a (toy) Rifle in an Open Carry State?"


#21

Utah man swung sword at officers, but was killed during foot chase | The Salt Lake Tribune

"Darrien pulled out his sword and swung it at officers," Taylor told The Tribune. "After that there was a pursuit."

Taylor would not discuss the distance or duration of the foot chase, or what happened during the chase immediately before Hunt was shot, saying only that “the scene takes place over a certain distance.”

However, Taylor did dispel rumors that Hunt used the sword, which his relatives describe as an ornamental “toy” katana, to threaten bystanders during the confrontation with officers.

“I have not heard that,” Taylor said.

Taylor’s finding that a foot chase preceded the shooting “supports our position that he was shot in the back while he was running, which makes it more likely that it was not justified,” Sykes said.

So, he did brandish the sword at the officers in some manner (would be nice to see the surveillance video), but was shot after/during a chase. Sounds like the family's autopsy findings of getting shot in the back still stand up.

#22

So, the official coroner’s report also contradicts the officer’s report.
WATCH LIVE: Family speaks following release of state’s autopsy report on Darrien Hunt - Good4Utah.com

A 32-page state autopsy report released Tuesday morning indicates the fatal shooting of Darrien Hunt by members of the Saratoga Springs Police Department did not occur in the manner in which the officers stated in their report.

Officers claimed they fired at Hunt during a Sept. 10 altercation in the Saratoga Springs commercial district after the 22-year-old lunged at them with a sword.

However, the state autopsy repeats the findings of an independent autopsy performed at the request of Hunt’s family that reportedly shows he was repeatedly shot in the back by Cpl. Matt Schaauerhamer and Off. Nicholas Judson.


#23

Same thing happens to a 12 year old black kid who was shot and killed by Cleveland police for waving round a toy gun in a city park. I bet the child didn’t understand the danger he faced from the police and was just playing. This is why you never let your kid have a fake pistol. Apparently the message that the gun was probably fake was not passed on to the police.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/23/cleveland-police-shoot-dead-12-year-old-boy-carrying-fake-gun


#24

They released the video… The kid is just walking around spinning the gun on his finger like a 12 yr old kid tends to do with a toy gun.
It doesn’t look like they even gave the kid one second to respond – the cop jumps out of a car as it speeds towards the kid and shoots him.


#25

It’s just sad. If Wilson couldn’t be charged, there needs to be a change in the law. It must be illegal to kill people like this. If you accept that Wilson was in a struggle with Brown over the gun, and that Wilson was hit in the head, those are mitigating factors when considering the sentence. It’s unacceptable to kill a fleeing suspect. It’s unacceptable to kill a juvenile. The police should minimise harm - clear the area, get a loud hailer, tell the kid from a safe distance to stop fucking around. Murdering him in cold blood must result in jail time. It must be the case that the police suffer an automatic reprisal for shooting the public, like 7 years in jail, so that they only do it when they’re certain their life depends on it. Otherwise there’ll always be this pointless and needless loss of life.

I’m remebering the pair in Britain who beheaded a soldier on the street armed with a machete and a pistol. They were disarmed by the police and shot non-fatally, immediately treated and then put on trial. Their lives were protected even in the face of egregious prima facie guilt. Just retrain the police in America to stop the loss of life, and punish those who don’t comply


#26

#27

At least nobody got shot here:
White ‘vigilante’ puts 62-year-old black man in chokehold for legally carrying gun in Florida Walmart


#28

Fucking Florida Man. Now he’s racist and incompetent?


#29

Now? For a very long time frame of “now”!


#30

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold, Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

Huh. So this Foster guy, and everyone else in Florida, is going to realize that allowing anyone to carry a gun into Walmart is a complete, utterly stupid idea, right? That the rest of us also get afraid when a white nutjob is carrying a gun?

Oh, no. No lessons are ever learned.


#31

The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens refrain
from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an incident
is gun-related,

B-but, if I can’t take matters into my own hands, what’s the point of owning a concealed weapon?


#32

It’s your duty as an American to take matters into your own hands. It’s what the founding fathers would have wanted you to do.


#33

All Founding Fathers carried concealed pistols loaded with hollow-point bullets. Well-known fact.


#34

Since the owner of the concealed weapon was the victim in this particular instance, I’d say your snark is misplaced.


#35

I feel the police intentionally placed themselves into a shoot first situation. That kid had no time to respond to any requests from the police.


#36

The former mayor of Salt Lake City has a nice editorial here on the need to train police to de-escalate situations (rather than escalate them as seems the norm in most of the tragic shootings).
Op-ed: Stop police violence through de-escalation, accountability | The Salt Lake Tribune

As Salt Lake City mayor for eight years, I dealt with hundreds of police officers, and with families of police officers who died or were injured during their service to our community. Most of them are good, competent people committed to their duty to help make our community a safe, secure place. They deal with dangerous, difficult situations. We should express our gratitude to them for being there when we need them.

However, we must recognize that some officers seriously abuse their power, treat people contemptuously and escalate tense, potentially violent situations rather than exercising the professionalism we expect of them and doing all they can to de-escalate volatile situations.

Better de-escalation training and full accountability will result in greater safety for all and the equal justice we should all expect.


#37

I wasn’t highlighting the behaviors of either individual, as they were both, in fact acting with some degree of rationality (gun-loving rationality on one end, racist rationality on the other, so grains of salt and all that). One guy sees a gun and thinks danger, pretty normal (other than the race implications). The other has a legal document saying he can carry a gun, so thinks that will be hunky-dorey. The failure here ins in the overall logic of the situation.

The only argument for concealed carry is vigilante justice (but what If I just didn’t want that skeet to see me coming!). Even self-defense is, to some degree, taking the law into your own hands. So if the Sheriff, representative of the law that allows concealed carry, tells you not to use it for the one reason it exists, then, well, logic circle closed. Basically, this is an admission that carrying concealed causes more confusion and potential harm than safety.

That’s my snark and I’m stickin’ to it.


#38

As opposed to this Police Chief who puts it on the “suspect” at this Save Our Sons conference:

Other presenters included Jackson Police Chief Lee Vance who talked about "de-escalation strategies," such as respectfully complying with officers' instructions.

“Even if you think that your rights may be violated, on the side of the street during a traffic stop is not the place to have that dispute,” Vance said. He also noted that officers are susceptible to civil and criminal lawsuits for misconduct.


An SOS to Black Youth | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

#39

To me, this is a simple answer to the “but he feared for his life!” argument. As walkin’ around folks, the rest of us have to make a lot of tough decisions about how to handle each and every potentially dangerous situation to avoid either death, injury, jailtime or a lawsuit. We’re vulnerable, so de-escalation (or at least the absence of a tendency toward escalation) is attractive to all but the most self-destructive. With a gun, a partner, backup at the ready, and a thick-ass blue line ready to back up even your stupidest, swaggering-est decisions, de-escalation has to be rigidly enforced and constantly trained, as it won’t come naturally.


#40

NJ Police shoot and kill black man who had his hands raised on video.

**definitely a tense video