The juggalos, class struggle, and the left

The alt right is a catchall term for a slate of inter-related far right movements largely constituting the new mysoginist movement (Men’s Rights, Red Pill, “Pick-up artists” etc), the reignited white supremecist and white nationalist movements and this thing called The Dark Enlightenment. That last bit being effectively a group of neo-monarchists, christian nationalists, and anti-democracy thinkers who are openly opposed to things like personal freedoms, civil rights, voting and the like.

If you don’t want to call them by their own chosen sobriquet. Then call them what they are:

Fascists. These asshole have basically rounded them selves back round to old school Fascism. They are neither specifically, nor entirely Nazis. Insisting on calling them such risks conflating them with a host of non relevant shit like the Aryan Brotherhood. And minimizes some pretty frightening shit about the Alt-Right that classic Neo-Nazi groups don’t evoke.

ETA: Though it’s important to note that racism does seem to be the thing that binds these various groups together. The major trend all of them have in common.

Gyrofrog · September 17, 2017, 1:07am

From the tweets @Wanderfound shared:

↑ I love that ↑

I recall that happening to a SubGenius.

I was about to suggest, that sounds like one definition of…

…ah, never mind, you beat me to it. One source (an old almanac that defined various ideologies/philosophies) said that fascism, essentially, rejects everything that came out of the Enlightenment.

Ryuthrowsstuff · September 17, 2017, 1:17am

Right and Nazism is just one flavor of Fascism. One that isn’t even specifically white supremacist. Strictly speak the Third Reich was an old school ethno-nationalist movement. It was the Germans who were supreme. They certainly bought into and embraced classic European racialism and the idea that whites Europeans were generally better than everyone else. But it was the “Aryans” who were at the top of that heap. They made concerted efforts to displace whites of other ethnic groups and forcibly resettle “pure” Germans in their former homes.

Even many of the Alt-Right members slinging swastikas and heiling Hitler are doing so for the sake of being provocative. Rather than some actual fondness or even awareness of the actual details of Nazism.

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 1:24am

And for the fascist counterprotest:

https://twitter.com/rvawonk/status/909125541718044672

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 2:24am

https://twitter.com/danacbell/status/897996244571664387

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 2:56am

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 3:21am

https://twitter.com/jacksmithiv/status/909164225637036032

https://twitter.com/jacksmithiv/status/909147498748530689

https://twitter.com/jacksmithiv/status/909126236873674753

https://twitter.com/realalexrubi/status/909166777623617536

wait_really · September 17, 2017, 3:35am

I think this is an excellent and oft overlooked point (and really I could’ve quoted your entire comment.) Fascism presents many faces to the world, and like no two fascist governments have been identical, none of the modern iterations are clones either and that understanding is crucial in combating fascism as a whole.

I’ve posted the essay below in the past, and I’ll repost it here because for me, it represents a crucial sort of base calculus for understanding the different faces of fascism.

Ur-Fascism, Umberto Eco

Israel_B · September 17, 2017, 3:39am

Very interesting, real TIL stuff, thanks.

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 3:47am

Yup.

Ryuthrowsstuff · September 17, 2017, 4:06am

That presents a relatively interesting point as well. It was suggested or claimed for a long time that classic European fascism “didn’t work” or couldn’t gain a toe hold in the US. And if you look at the history of open fascism here that looked plausible. Most of the fascist movements here were not particularly successful electorally. Lacked the populist or nationalist focus. Remained fringe movements. Or had fairly unique features tied directly to things like Jim Crow era US racial politics that didn’t present themselves elsewhere. There was this sort of early burst of fascism here, and it didn’t make it through the world wars particularly well. With prominent fascists and sympathizers having their reputations tarnished by it, rather than managing to bring it legitimacy (think Charles Lindbergh). Post WWII true and open fascist movements here remained decidedly fringe. Which is not to say there was a lack of fascistic ideas, politics or crypto-fascism here. You just didn’t see the sort of persistent, politically influential movements that have plagued Europe. And there were key ideological differences between fascism here and fascism abroad.

One of the more interesting things with the Alt-Right. Is that its really been the first European style, and directly European connected Fascist movement to gain this level of influence since the 20’s. Think Farange campaigning for Trump. However much the roots of the ideology are clearly in the American Hard Right, that whole Techno-Libertarian thing, and the right wing medias conspiracy theory obsessions. Its wound up in a place that’s very similar. In many ways identical to Fascist and far right movements that have existed in Europe for a very, very long time. Even their white supremacy is characteristically different than the usual American strain. Less about murdering blacks and the south will rise again. Than it is a white genocide, and who’s woman has been spoiled by Muslim cock.

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 4:20am

Ryuthrowsstuff · September 17, 2017, 4:57am

Two things. First the South was a model the Nazi’s looked to in regards to race. And perhaps on a cultcha ‘n’ hertage level thanks to that whole lost cause ideology thing that became huge during the 2nd clan period. But there wasn’t much political similarity between the two. And ultimately Hitler went with eradication over subjugation. As much as the Nazis were fans of forced labor that was more of a slow, productive execution than economic linch pin. Jim crow was definitely an influence and inspiration on the Nuremberg laws. But the Nazi’s went a Fuck load farther and harder.

Second this interwar period represents the only true flourishing of fascist movements in the US. Prewwi you were looking at the early rise and codification of fascism. Leading through the war and into the depression you had clashes between the labor movement, socialist ET Al and fascists the rise of the second clan and major anti immigrant wave. That was the last period where the American far right really resembled the far right in Europe. And had direct ties to it. The success of the labor movement here, The new deal. And the enthusiastic fight against Hitler and European fascism are what purportedly turned the US resolutely away from European style fascism and ethnonationalism forever. Too much of our national identity became tied up in those things for such ideologies to really pass muster here.

Which is why it’s not * at all* curious that our current political moment is starting to so closely mirror that era. Massive anti immigrant moments and racial purity movements. Talk of preserving cultures from outside influences. And the symbols left from it, like confederate statues. Are becoming topics of debate and the sites of violent clashes. All that same ideological fuel has come back to the fore. With the same international ties.

Bobo · September 17, 2017, 5:05am

I’m pretty sure that Juggalos are also not known for unarmed combat…

The “official” info from the ICP said to leave hatchets etc… at home, but whether or not they actually do…

Auld_Lang_Syne · September 17, 2017, 5:05am

That is just soooo beautiful!

Wanderfound · September 17, 2017, 5:10am

I’m not actually trying to argue against what you’re saying, BTW.

I think that this is an interesting facet to explore, though.

So, while I get my thoughts together to write something, one more old bit for the benefit of the peanut gallery:

Also: @anon61221983, I’d be interested in hearing your take on this stuff.

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The juggalos, class struggle, and the left

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