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I totally get that there are people for whom it is a fun and engaging activity.
It is a stressful and painful activity for me, which I will pay a premium not to have to engage in. That’s why I like stores where I go in, see a thing I need, pay the price that’s on it, and leave.
Even buying a car, I look at the dealers lists, I find a car I like for a reasonable looking price, and I go and buy it. That’s what I did the last few times I bought a car. I am not going to haggle it down. I am going to do them the courtesy of assuming that the price they’re advertising is the price. Yes, they then sit me down and try to increase the price on their end by trying to sell me window tinting and special lacquer and financing, and the answer is “no.” And if the car I went in to buy “was sold this morning can I interest you in …” then I’m going to think about it later in my own damn time, not while you’re talking to me.
Real estate is a whole other thing. And that’s screwed up in all sorts of ways from beginning to end. If I ever get the opportunity to buy real estate, I am fully expecting to have to negotiate and haggle. And I am also expecting to hate every moment of it, and I am fully expecting to spend almost all available mental energy on it, and I am fully expecting that once it is done, it is done, and I won’t have to do it again hopefully ever.
Like I say: I totally get that there are people who like haggling and engage in it whenever they can because they find it fun. Please accept that there are people for whom it is a stressful and painful experience even when done lightheartedly, and that it is something that sometimes must be done, but we are willing to literally pay extra not to have to.
And perhaps it’s that sort of continual “but you don’t really hate it, it’s fun! You just haven’t tried it!” pushback which led the person in the OP to put those conditions in his listing. Because he’s sick and tired of people trying to convince him that he doesn’t mean it when he says he hates haggling.
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This is why I like brokers and car buying deals like through Bay Area Checkbook (not sure if they still exist) and Costco, where you get a pre-negotiated price and don’t have to haggle.
People have informed me that they could get much better deals through negotiating, especially better than going through Costco which is actually a lead generator that the dealers pay Costco for. But in reality I got very good prices below invoice. And with one car, knowing the pre-negotiated deal I had in my pocket, I tried my hand at negotiating for the same model at a different dealership. Effing hell if the nice college student who seemed too new to car sales to try to rip me off didn’t do the full check list of 4 square BS, “I need you to sign this commitment sheet for my manager”, and the “oh the car you wanted to buy and negotiated for is sold, how about this one at a higher price” nonsense. Not doing that crap again. They do it for a living. The odds are in their favor. Same reason I don’t take Scientology personality tests as a lark. Not worth the risk.
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I think inherent in that is what we haggle over and when we do it. Excepting the cars haggling is something we do with things that don’t have a fixed or set value.
If I am running a store. I have my over head and expenses, I generally have a good idea what things will sell for. And I know what kind of margins and markups I need to do things like keep the doors open, pay employees, and make a living. So the price is fairly fixed on either end. I can not pay any more for an item than a certain percentage below what the going rate is. And I can not lower my end price beyond a certain point either.
So we don’t haggle.
On the other hand if I am selling the table I used to use, in order to get rid of it. Well I don’t have overhead to cover, I don’t need to make a profit. I probably know what I paid for the table, but not the going rate for that table in that state. There’s a lot less clarity.
So we haggle. There’s a discussion on what the table is worth to me, what it’s worth to you. And whether there’s a mid point we can both agree on.
Not neccisarily. You can be a lot more straight forward than all that. I’m in sales, and it’s not quite haggling, but it usually works better to just be frank with people. I have/want X. I can do Y to make it happen. This is why, these are the facts. And so forth.
It’s also pretty important not to say you’ll walk away if you don’t actually intend to. The seller has to know you will not pay more. Because you will not pay more. Or can’t pay more.
That does require the other person to cooperate in kind. And it does require you both to give up on “winning” or some how beating out the other guy.
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Can it? Because I’m assuming you don’t just tell people the actual lowest number you’ll accept when negotiating a sale. Because if you did it would just be a fixed price sale, not a negotiation. To you, offering a negotiable price that might be straight forward, but to me that kind of poker face while discussing viable deals is a kind of deception, where you have to keep your true feelings and actual bottom line hidden from discovery.
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CounterCounterpoint: who has time for that shit!?!
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What I’m saying is that’s entirely unnecessary, and just doesn’t work as well as just putting it out there.
You only need to hide things if you are attempting to pull one over on some one, or assume they are doing so.
Like I said if you are attempting to “win”. Something.
Not at all what I meant.
You need to have a fixed cutoff point. And stick to it. You can’t threaten to walk away, then not walk away. Whether you are buying or selling. You have the price you’d like, and the price you can’t go beyond.
You can absolutely tell some one these two numbers. And they could tell you theirs. If they cross over somewhere, hey you’re done. Though obviously it is weird and rude to barge in and announce weird things like this. You are having a conversation with a real human person.
If some one asks what the lowest/highest you can go is. Just tell them. And why. You can still insist on a price above or below that.
If you don’t think something is worth what is being asked or offered. Just tell them. And why.
Tell them why you want the thing. Or why you’re looking to sell it. Tell them what you like about it. And what you don’t.
Information is everyone’s friend here.
If the price never hits a number you like. Then just don’t buy or sell.
People get wrapped up on this because they start from the idea that they absolutely must buy/sell, and that they must get the absolute lowest/highest price.
That’s just not what this thing is.
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My ultimate goal in life is to be a slacker and a bum. That way, I’ll have time for all the shit.
Life without the time for the shit is a life not worth living.
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Ah. My philosophy is the opposite. If you want to get something done, ask a busy person.
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I would totally show up with $100, matches and some gasoline.
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Amen to this. Money is not the only currency, and spending excess time, attention, or peace of mind in exchange for spending less cash, is often not worth it at all.
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I doubt it’s historically accurate:
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First, the need is to separate the idea of “slacker/bum” from the idea of “anti-work” (anti-exploitation). The two are not aligned.
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Exactly. I enjoyed the Fox News Christmas tree burning waaaaay too much. I don’t want to set fire to anything myself, but I’m happy to let someone else set fire to stuff and watch it burn.
I’m like a lazy Firebug from Batman.
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When I sell stuff on craigslist, I make sure to point out all the defects and show photos of them. I set a price low enough that it’s clear this is a good value. I rarely have people try to haggle and if they do I just show them the door.
When I buy on craigslist and see that a seller has taken the same approach, I don’t haggle.
But for items whose condition isn’t clear from the ad or clarifiable via email, I will tell the buyer that my offer is conditional on verifying the condition in person.
For items that have clearly been up for a long time without offers, or otherwise seem overpriced, I will either start the haggling process over email, or tell them over email that I may haggle when I show up.
Like @catsidhe I don’t like lying to gain advantage or dealing with people who lie, and this process generally gets me to a market price without the need to do so.
Buying a car, however, is a completely different game since the starting assumption is that the dealer is lying so lying to them is the only way to get to a market price.
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I wouldn’t really say so. To the extent that it’s different. It’s because sales of this sort is inherently different, in that if you can’t come to an agreement on a price for a particular item. The sales person’s job is not to stop negotiating. But to find a different item that fits your needs, including needs on price.
When I last bought a car, I ended up visiting 3 dealerships. I had a very clear idea of what I wanted. I made sure I knew what the going rate for it was, as well as how much I could or wanted to spend at max.
At each dealership I told the sales person that I was looking for used, 2-3 years old. Preferably a lease return. The mileage range I was looking for. Features and trim level and what have. I did not care if it was certified pre-owned, but they were welcome to explain to me why that was worthwhile. I told them I would not spend more than $20k, and what sort of monthly payment I could handle. I told them what I did for a living, what the car would be used for. Why I wanted that specific car. That I needed it quickly as my existing car had been totaled, and the car was for work.
I asked them to show me cars on the lot, meeting those needs. Under the $20k limit, with negotiable prices.
The first two dealers were more reputable ones (one still does the service on my car). Both told me about the same thing. That they didn’t have any used cars of that model available, since used sales were so strong at the time. Each referred me to the other as well, even though they’re not associated with each other.
They offered other models and information about them to see if they would fit. They both told me when they’d be at the auto-auctions, what the situation at those auctions was. That they would be there in about 3 weeks, and could come back with specific options for me if I was still stuck.
They even offered info on pricing ranges on what I was asking for in the area.
Cause again, information is everyone’s friend.
The dealership I ended up buying from was much sketchier. I gave them the same spiel but the salesmen was a lot less forthcoming, and didn’t really pay much attention. He was clearly dishonest on a lot, didn’t seem to know his actual product well.
But every time he pushed a car above my limit, and I stressed it was a limit. And that he either needed to come down in price. Or show me a car where he could. If he wouldn’t I said we should discuss one of the other cars, that was already below my cap. But that he would also need to come down on price on that because: factual reasons. I made sure they knew that another dealership could have a car for me, in my price range, within a month.
When he tried to alter the price offered after we agreed to one. I did same. Said I’d leave, or we needed to discuss a price on a different car. When they tried to change the price after paperwork was signed, and legally they couldn’t. I again threatened to leave (and report them to the authorities).
In the end I got a decent discount, I got the car I needed. At a fair price, within my means. It’s been a good car, and I never have to deal those people again.
I did end up pretty much at my cap, but I got more car than I had been shooting for. Lower mileage, no accidents, a year newer, couple bells and whistles. The salesman seemed to think he’d done a very good job, but I 100% lead the process. And judging by later sketchy interactions with the Manager I’m pretty sure he got in trouble.
Had I not been in a been in a bind I wouldn’t have dealt with them at all. But being straight forward and open worked, even faced with some one dishonest. Ultimately speaking. I probably did not get the best price ever, and probably could have gotten a better deal if I kept shopping around.
But I can afford what I paid, am happy with what I paid, what I paid was a fair price in the time and place. And I am happy with the car.
Sounds like your experience mostly agrees with mine. I have used the honest “Here’s my best, fair offer take it or leave it I’m absolutely not budging” approach for all my car purchases. But like you I think I could have gotten a lower price if I were willing to expend more effort on negotiating. For me that would have taken the form of lying: starting at a lower than fair offer, lying that is my “best offer” and walking out the door a few times before telling them my real best offer.
That’s not what I’m talking about.
What I told them was the absolute max I could spend on any car, along with a general budget range. Then discussed a fair price on each specific car based on information about that car and what I needed.
I didn’t do a no deal stop, either overall or on an individual car. Unless the car was above that line, or no car was below it. Or when that last dealer attempted to alter an agreed to price, or otherwise did something sketchy. And that “I can spend $20k” was not an offer of $20k for a car or on a specific car.
I did not and would not have paid the asking price, or an offered price, just because it was at or below that cap either. I wasn’t telling them “sell me a car for exactly twenty thousand dollars”.
And I don’t think I ever did the not budging, final offer, this is what I’m paying thing till a price was agreed on already. What I did do was ask to discuss a different car, or inform them that I would go somewhere else. Entirely honestly. Cause I would go somewhere else.
The final sale price was below my $20k cap. But tax and registration fees and what have basically put it right there. At several points, at all 3 dealers, there was discussion of cars that were well below that cap. But were over priced for what they were, or weren’t what I was looking for. At the first two dealers there was talk about new cars for a bit.
But like you I think I could have gotten a lower price if I were willing to expend more effort on negotiating.
A lot of what I’m saying is this can’t really be your goal. That to the extent that this is a factor, tricks and deception won’t get you there.
For you, and anyone, what it takes is going somewhere else. Just don’t buy that car, or don’t buy the car from them.
All walking out the door and coming back does is demonstrate that you will actually pay more. Whatever offer they make then, is probably not as good as what they would have offered if you’d just been direct and stuck it out. And they’re more likely to offer more add ons, sweeteners or other things of little value or cost to make it seem like a better deal than it is. Or make you feel like you got a win.
If you don’t like the price on the car, you don’t have to buy it. If you really want to minimize what you pay, it doesn’t take deception. It takes putting the time into checking other options.
You can go into that dealership 3 times with the dog and pony show. Or you can just go into 3 dealerships. There’s also brokers and car buying services. My insurance company has a car finder service that’s I believe free if you qualify for a loan with them.
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Lucky. Any extra room by any chance?
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