Probably a death trap but what a way to go.
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@jgs it’s hard to tell if you’re expressing resentment against VW or against stupid Americans 
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How hard would it be to EV up a kit bug?
ETA: found this
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Well, my intention was to express it towards VW but I do see your point.
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Are you sure it isn’t a botched Hudson knockoff?
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There are mitigating factors which are often overlooked.
American roads have been getting terrible because of lack of infrastructure spending. At the same time, automakers started copying European sedans, which were smaller and more fuel efficient (good), and offered tighter performance suspensions (ouch).
So those pillowy soft, surprisingly long travel suspensions that had been a mainstay of American body on frame car design for decades left at exactly the wrong time.
Also, Americans tend to drive more, longer distances and times than our European counterparts. Yep, Americans do really drive for an hour or two daily to the office and back. Since the US is so large, driving the equivalent of from London to Moscow happens a lot more often than a European would think.
SUVs have high travel, softer suspensions. They are typically more plush with softer seats. They are generally more comfortable to spend hours in at a time.
The USA basically has no intercity public transit other than relatively expensive airlines, and a bus system that is intentionally made horrible.
Are SUVs the best answer? Probably not.
Of the products on the market, is it the rational choice because it meets the needs better than other products available for sale? Sure seems so.
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These are fair points. But yet, we do continue to have a lot of sedans on the road here, even if they’re no longer the norm. What I was bitching about is the fact VW isn’t willing to sell some of their best cars — which happen to be small — here. Maybe it’s for totally rational business reasons, but I’ve worked at enough big companies to know that even the largest don’t always make their decisions on the basis of pure logic, and I do detect the smell of the sentiment I parodied in my earlier (offensive?) post, emanating from Wolfsburg.
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Disagree. Assuming that you even need a large vehicle at all, modern minivans are great. They’re roomier, have better visibility, and better gas mileage than most SUVs. The hood shape is less deadly in pedestrian collisions. They can handle bad roads just fine unless you’re talking about serious off-roading. But people don’t buy them these days because car purchases tend to be emotional, not rational, and for some reason most Americans just don’t want to be seen in a minivan.
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I own a mini van. They are great. But they are kind of the sweat pants of vehicles.
But honestly, the difference between a modern SUV and a modern Minivan is kind of minimal. Minivans tend to be taller between the floor and roof, with slightly lower ground clearance. But to be honest, it’s mostly just the doors; the sliding rear doors. For people who only need to seat 4 or fewer people, there’s not that much of a difference between a SUV and a Minivan. (Also, it has gotten really hard to find a good 4x4 minivan.)
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Not a fan of the Chrysler Pacifica? It’s available with AWD and the hybrid version gets 82 mpge. If that still can’t handle the roads you drive on then I agree that a 4x4 truck-based vehicle may be the “rational” choice but that’s definitely not the case where most Americans drive.
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40 or 50 million Americans live in the Great Lakes basin, where it snows half the year (like it did Tuesday night, what fun). There’s definitely a practical reason to want a 4x4 if you live in Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, Minneapolis, etc. I’ve gotten by (barely) with 2-wheel drive vehicles, but I’m really tired of trying to drive in snow with one. I’ve committed myself to driving the Stupid Prius into the ground (so no one else must suffer it), but the next car has to be at least AWD and plug-in hybrid that isn’t a Subaru.
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You know that it snows in many parts of Europe too, right? The need for vehicles that can safely drive on snowy roads is not new, and not a uniquely American requirement, although the appetite for gas-guzzling SUVs does seem to be largely an American phenomenon. There are plenty of great AWD vehicles of all shapes and sizes out there for those who need them, and the majority of American drivers live in places where they don’t need AWD at all.
That said, yes, there’s a small subset of drivers for whom a big 4x4 SUV makes the most practical sense. But that doesn’t explain the larger trend.
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Europe is not the United States. The conditions in Europe are not the same as in the United States. The commutes, availability of public transit, willingness to take a snow day, walk ability of cities, size of roads, and thousands of other variables are very different between the two areas.
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It really depends on what you’re talking about when you say SUV. Our Forester’s mileage beats the Pacifica by a long shot (26/33 vs 17/25) and that’s with standard all-time AWD, which I will not go without in NY mountain winters.
In fact, just doing a bit of digging shows massive discrepancies among similar low-MPG vehicles and better-performing analogues. They seem to trend toward “performance” packages for the low-MPG vehicles, but there are some inexplicable gas guzzlers in there.
ETA: Ha! The link’s descriptive texts even says as much. I didn’t see that until posting.
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Fair enough. My main gripe is against the large body-on-frame, full-size truck-derived SUVs. The forester calls itself a “Compact sport utility vehicle” in its marketing but it’s really more of a glorified station wagon, which is fine.
Also as far as MPG I was talking about the Pacifica plug-in hybrid, which as far as I know still gets much better mileage than most full-size SUVs.
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Which is fair considering that that’s where they originated and that they were the main option in the category until about 10 years or so ago. I actually hesitated when going from the Outback to the Forester just for that reason, assuming that the mileage and safety rating would be far worse, when it’s actually the opposite. I grew up driving Detroit V8s and getting sub-10 mpg, so getting upward of 30 still feels like I’m cheating somehow.
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I assume you’ve already heard the speech about snow tires? If not I’d be willing to perform it.
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Do you want to hear the lecture about assuming everyone has a garage to store extra tires in?
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Nope. As it happens I pay to have mine stored because of lack of storage space at home. BTDT.
I mean, they’re the law here and plenty of people don’t have garages. Somehow they manage.
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