Well, when you punch Nazis, you’re playing their game and engaging in the very behavior you claim you oppose: Might is right.
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I think groups like Life After Hate are important and valuable, but I also think they only work because they’re being run by people that the racists and bigots already recognize as part of their own cultural in-group.
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I don’t know how to interpret your vague response, because yes, your statement is technically true. However, you seem to be making a tongue-in-cheek point without actually explicitly saying something you’d rather not say explicitly.
That might not be your intention, but if it is, it kind of sucks.
So can you clarify your statement for me? Do you support the idea of preemptively punching someone who is otherwise not an immediate, violent threat, or do you think that initiating physical violence against someone is only warranted in cases where that person has already become violent toward you or someone else, and you are defending yourself of someone else?
Or perhaps you can clarify it in some other way, without being so ambiguous?
I could watch that gif all day.
That’s a discussion that has had substantial exploration here over recent times. This might be a good place to start:
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We’ve had this conversation before, and I’m not going to keep regurgtiating it.
Last time:
Leave me alone, and everything will be fine; I don’t go around ‘throwing the first punch.’
But come for me or mine with nefarious intent, and all fuckin’ bets are off.
That’s not going to change; period.
Read what I just wrote; it’s not that complicated.
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By our powers combined, we call Captain Hold My Beer!
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I think the original anti-Captain Planet works: Captain Pollution. Bigotry, hatred, and fear qualifies as anti-Heart.
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Nah. I read them several times before I posted. I’m good.
And I was supposed to know that…how?
Here’s the thing about that cycle of hate and retribution you’re decrying. One side is Nazis. I will hate Nazis on behalf of an entire branch missing from my family tree. It didn’t fall off, by the way. It was pruned. In case you need reminding what that swastika actually means.
And as for the lack of advocating anyone take such action, you praised it as the right thing to do. C’mon, man. You didn’t agree because you thought the lighting on that video was particularly flattering. Here’s some language enthusiasm for you: look up the word “sophistry.” I’ll wait. Go ahead.
I get it. Sucks to be called out. But you’re wrong. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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That’s fair, and not unreasonable, though I disagree that it’s not complicated.
“Nefarious intent” is a very ambiguous phrase that could mean very different things to different people.
For example, most people would probably agree that walking toward someone else in a menacing fashion while wielding a pipe wrench would probably give them sufficient, reasonable justification to initiate a preemptive physical act of self defense. However, there are probably people who delight in the South Park-style game of “he’s coming right for us!” who would claim “nefarious intent” as justification for “self defense”, who might classify just the act of a white supremacist standing in public as “nefarious intent”. There are clearly images showing people who thought it appropriate to punch him in the face, seemingly without further instigation than him standing there in his own act of nonviolent (albeit despicable) demonstration.
Regardless of how “nefarious” and awful one might label that guy, I’m rather not okay with anyone taking that as license to punch him in the face. I hope the same goes for you. <Editing this part out because, as it was pointed out to me, it was unnecessary and not cool.>
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Disagree all you like; for me it’s simple; and I’ve already explained my stance multiple times, on this thread and every other one like it:
I don’t start fights.
(I’m Black, and a single mom; and I can’t afford the risk of arrest, jail time, court costs, lawyers fees, and/or possible civil law suits.)
I don’t throw the first punch.
I don’t bother anyone, or disrespect anyone.
BUT…
If I feel that my physical safety and well being is in peril, I will respond accordingly.
Those are my personal rules of everyday survival, regardless to what any potential threat may look like.
Someone merely wearing Nazi insignias or any other sign of bigotry isn’t enough to make me feel threatened, and I wouldn’t just start throwing blows… but it puts me on instant alert, much as I would consider it a warning if I heard the rattle of a snake.
Nothing I’ve ever said or implied has been about preemptive violence; but always about responding to violence when it’s brought to my doorstep.
If you honestly don’t understand the basic ‘fight or flight’ response we all have on an instinctual level, then I don’t really know what to tell you… other than to say that I cannot be shamed into ‘feeling bad’ about my own self preservation, or that of my kid.
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Well, perhaps by asking me? Is that unreasonable, to ask someone what they meant, instead of assuming the worst and using it as an excuse to be self-righteous and mean? But yeah, I agree that my meaning was not clear in my wording. You could give me the benefit of the doubt, and of course you don’t owe me that, but it’s not very kind, nor reasonable to expect everyone to be 100% clear with their wording 100% of the time, without any chance to explain their words or settle doubt.
Lol @ the sophistry turnaround, though. Well done. So I took your suggestion as you did mine and looked it up. “The use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.”
So I believe what you’re implying (please correct me if I’m mistaken, if so inclined) is that you think my original post and intention was to support and advocate the act shown in the video, and that I’m trying to retcon that intention and deceive you (and others) by claiming otherwise. I’ll admit, that’s plausible and reasonable, and possibly a little true. I really liked the video in the context it was posted, and the idea it seemed to support of not punching people. I did not interpret Akimbo_NOT’s post as advocating that action, only as a counterpoint to the whole “punching of nazis” bandwagon people seemed to be boarding. I probably got a bit caught up in that feeling and purposely left my statement unclarified. If so, that was certainly my mistake, and I apologize for it.
I still (then and now) would not have advocated for someone to actually do what the video depicted. Even while watching it, I thought it was unacceptable behavior, even with the “positive spin” of “hugging it out”. This is where I think you don’t believe me, and that you claim I’m deceiving you about my original intention. I can do more than claim that’s not accurate, because I can actually provide evidence, in the form of a timestamped post on my public Facebook wall from only two days ago, very clearly opposing violation of body autonomy, which is quite clearly what’s happening in that video: No Forced Affection. Their Body, Their Choice.
I get this isn’t proof of my intention, and I don’t expect it will convince you regardless. I’m sorry if you think I’m someone who wants you or anyone to endanger themselves by violating others’ body autonomy under the guise of handing one’s adversary an olive branch. I’m sorry if you think I’m doubly-flawed that I would feel compelled to lie about my original intention for the sake of my pride or some other motivation. I think you’re wrong, but maybe I’m misinterpreting your response. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Well said, Melz2! I’m super-sorry if I prompted you to feel like you needed to defend yourself.
I haven’t read your other posts and am unfamiliar with you personally, so all I had to go on was your posts in this thread (the ones I saw, at least, I might not have seen all of your posts, if there were others). I think you sound very reasonable and your attitude about self defense and violence seems that way too. I had no idea about your race or gender, I did not assume any race or gender when I responded to you. As a white male, I can’t pretend to empathize with what it’s like to live as a black American. But I certainly sympathize as much as I can, and I’m very sorry that the state of our society is still one that very understandably makes you feel regularly feel unsafe, discounted, marginalized, or anything like that. It’s terrible, and I’m sorry. 
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Dude, thanks and all, but you’re like 42 years too late;
I’m a working-poor woman of color in America - I wake up every single day feeling the need to ‘defend myself’ - it’s only the nature of the potential threats that vary, from time to time.
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This Spencer thing has given me an idea for healthcare in America. If you get seriously ill, book a talk at the nearest university. Apparently the university will then be obligated to spend at least up to $600k to make sure you can deliver you talk.
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Good-NRA-guy-with-a-gun was busy elsewhere that day.
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But that’s a prison for brown people! Nazis go to medium/minimum to learn from their elders.
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Ah Buffy. I think it’s almost time to rewatch a few of those episodes.
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They knew what they were signing up for
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