Time to learn how to actually use that camera you insisted on buying in high school

boing
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It’s shocking just how bad the UI of every digital camera I have ever handled is. A real pity that no company with decent design chops and decent software chops was ever inspired to take a crack at digital cameras (not counting phone cameras here).

Worst of all, the UI horror show exists for no good reason. Camera UI for professional cameras was a solved problem until the digital revolution. Why the hell they don’t simply make professional DSLRs with actual buttons and dials that turn and click to set all the important settings is a mystery.

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[quote=“Glaurung, post:41, topic:96831”]
Why the hell they don’t simply make professional DSLRs with actual buttons and dials that turn and click to set all the important settings is a mystery.
[/quote] Um, they do. And not even the professional ones. Entry level ones typically have at least two dials for aperture and shutter speed and then individual buttons to change ISO or other settings. All of which can then be programmed as per the end user.

For example, I’ve remapped my auto focus away from the shutter button so I don’t have to focus at every shot. On top of that, software can then be configured to have an ISO range so it can charge automatically but not get into the range the end user sees as grainy.

Seriously, I think you guys are just looking at really crappy DSLRs.

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I’ve already asked @falcor to fix when they have a chance to do so.

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Have set it to not auto close.

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I don’t consider myself a photographer. I was raised by two, and married one. I hung with my mum in a darkroom, dodged and burned, and miss the smell of fixer.

This is my favorite camera of all time.

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The lowest priced current Nikon with two dials is the D7200.
I think the Canon equivalent is the 80D-- not the 77D, which in many respects is a T7i with extra features

Of course, those are DLSRs, and not mirrorless.

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What we were hoping is that the forked topic would be reopened and OT posts from here be moved over there…

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So you’re saying that these actual buttons and dials that “professional DSLRs” should have are available at less than a thousand dollars?

Shocker. Especially when you consider that the cameras that everyone is missing, would have run you $300 in 1990 and required a lifetime of film. That’s $592 in today’s dollars.

Here’s what the 10 customizable button menu looks like:

Seriously, if there are any complaints about seeing cameras that don’t have these functions, look for better cameras. They are out there and give you a ton of more options that the manual Minolta I learned on. I don’t miss that camera at all in comparison.

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My first camera was dad’s old Brownie Box. Had the crazy flash attachment, too. Not sure where it is now.

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I’m not sure I get your question? I have a modern Nikon DSLR and it has all those things, as they always have.

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I spent high school either with an SLR (Konica) around my neck or in the darkroom. I don’t currently own a DSLR, though I came close with my first digital, the venerable Oly 2500L. But I’ll stand by the old saw “the best camera in the world is the one you have with you”. I simply can’t see myself dragging a DSLR around the places that the pocket camera goes. My latest is a Fuji shockproof-waterproof that goes kayaking with me when I can drag it away from my son the climber. I’ve taken “art” shots with the little Fuji’s that I’m as proud of as any film I shot. And the some of these have fully manual exposure modes.

How about a “photo gallery” thread to post our work? Or is the new thread that also?

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I shoot Nikon. I have a D7100, upgraded from a D70 in 2015, which was an upgrade from a N60 in 2004.

I also shoot a Nikon FM10, which is the Nikon version of the mechanical, non-automated, cheap camera that everyone is lamenting over. (Still available new! Also, made by a third party, Cosina, so NB4 “It’s not a real Nikon!” :slight_smile: )

I figured going through the use case for each camera to take a picture may show the differences between the cameras more fully. I think there is a lot of confusion about DSLRs versus Manual SLRs…

Shooting the D7100 requires some setup before the shoot, using buttons and the command dials. I almost always shoot in M (Manual) mode, so set my ISO and White Balance.

I set the same functions on my FM10 through a process called “Loading my Film”. :slight_smile: (Also, don’t forget to lift up the shutter speed dial and rotate to match the film speed, otherwise your exposure meter will be off.)

Then, shooting the D7100, I twist a dial (not marked) to set my shutter speed (which is displayed on the top deck of the camera and in the viewfinder) and a second dial to handle the aperture (also displayed in the viewfinder and top deck). If the lens I am using has an aperture ring, I can twist it instead. There is autofocus, and a switch to turn it off.

For the FM10, the shutter speed is set by the dial, and you have to use a lens with an aperture ring. The info is not shown in the viewfinder; you have to look at the lens and dial to see what it is. (Other models did have this information shown in the view finder.)

I find that I have to pull the D7100 away from my face much less while taking pictures than the FM10. I have a lot more information available in the viewfinder.

I also find that I use the menus in the D7100 very rarely. Almost everything I want to do on a regular basis has a button. My #1 Menu diving item is swapping between my manual lenses, so it “knows” which lens I have on the camera. Other than that, it may be months between times when I open the menus.

My understanding is that almost all camera brands have similar setups for at least some of their DSLRs.

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Canikon are having trouble competing with smartphones, so much of their UX is now oriented towards getting frames on to social media, adding touch screens, etc.

Video is also hard to do well with a DLSR.

There’s a whole market out there that wants more than still photos.

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You’re kidding, right? Or do you mean handheld video? Because every time I watch a documentary these days it’s three DSLR cameras on tripods. Feature films have been shot on them.

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Mine too! Made and used one for the first semester of my university Photography courses, and then a Diana plastic camera that I borrowed.

Good times!

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Pentax K1000. All it had was a light meter. I bought it in highschool and used it all the way through college, where photography was my major. I finally sold it around 2000 on ebay for $500 or so with the normal 55mm lens, a 105mm portrait lens, a case, and a flash.

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As @SteampunkBanana noted, what you said about video is not correct. But it is true that the smartphone presents a lot of competition to traditional camera companies. They have rendered the pocket camera all but irrelevant at this point at the least.

Photography, like any art is the artist before the device for sure. Just like a brilliant guitarist, you put a crummy Sears 6 string in their hands and run it through a shitty solid state amp and they will still make music better than most. But they all still ultimately play a Gibson or a Fender (or something equivalent like PRS, etc.) through a Marshall or Fender tube amp (or a quality amp inspired by Jim and Leo) every day.
We have a friend who is a wedding and portrait photographer and is generally excellent at taking photos of anything - she has the eye. My wife has a great eye as well, way better than I do. Even though she didn’t own a camera her entire life till I bought her one 10 years ago when we went on vacation one time. Everyone said - dude, your wife is already a better photographer than you are.
Our friend could probably shoot a wedding on an iphone and it would look great. To a point. What she’s able to do with a D810 takes it all to a different level.

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handheld video.

The advantages of a DSLR (optical view finder, phase detection) work against the videographer. Mirrorless is generally where it’s at, Also, there’s the small issue of Canon and Nikon being slow to implement 4K properly.

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Having a recessive hoarder gene, I carted around my last Olympus body and lenses for years after I stopped shooting with them. I had a Tamron 80-200 f2.8 that I got in the 80’s for around $800. Also the Oly Zuiko lenses were known for being compact compared to their competition. I got a Nikon D70 with kit lens for $1300 back in 2004. It was good for printing up to 8x12, maybe 11x14. But lenses were still very expensive. I stopped being a professional photographer back in 1994 when I stopped making a living from it after a career change. I had sold off all of my 4x5 and 645 equipment. 4 years after the D70 I was mostly using a point and shoot because it was twice the megapixels of the Nikon. I came across my old Tamron and realized I could get the Nikon mount (it was the Adapt-all 2) and use it on my D70. It reminded me that the lenses we used matter as much as the film. The best images I got from that D70 were with that lens. Then my brother showed me his Sony NEX 6 with an adapter for old manual lenses. Mind blown. I had always wished I could put those Oly lenses on my point and shoot. I even took an older point and shoot apart to see if I could somehow put a manual lens on it. Now I have the Sony A7 II and am considering going back to making some money in photography. Of the many lenses I use, only one is an electronic AF lens made for the Sony. Heck, I have a Ukrainian made Zeiss copy that takes amazing pictures and it cost me $17 plus shipping. Do you have to use the owners manual on a digital camera? Yes, it has a lot more setting available than a manual camera including being able to customize that buttons and knobs do what. That’s a good thing (Martha Stewart voice). I have been helping friends who just got a new Canon Rebel to understand the ISO - Shutter Speed - Aperture relationship. It’s not a hard concept for most people to grasp and suddenly they are thinking about their photos more. Snapshots are great, and I will never deny that I am always on the alert for “that shot” that suddenly presents itself. But pros know that almost all of their best images are made through pre-visualization. You see the photo in your head and then you work towards it. Even a news photographer who people might think just shoots what is happening in front of them is rapidly analyzing the scene and composing in their head to make a good shot.

I think that the rise of digital cameras, especially decent sensors in smart phones, made people oblivious to depth of field. The sensors are so small that DOF tends towards huge. Everything became so flat in amateur photography. I give props to Instagram for introducing people to selective focus, even if it was a filter. Your eye naturally goes to the part in focus and when everything was it focus it often made for less interesting pictures. I spent many years shooting film, and in darkrooms. I love the nostalgia of it, but I won’t be going back. I can get better “Zone system” B+W prints out of my digital camera/computer/printer workflow than I did in the darkroom on 35mm. I don’t miss the chemicals. My favorite prime lens is a Contax G 45mm f2. When compared to it’s Zeiss brand twin it is noted to have a tiny bit of a warm cast. On Ektachrome that mattered. I would rather click for a filter correction than carry a bunch of filters.

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http://leicastoremiami.com/products/leica-m-edition-leica-60

Of course you can have all the nostalgia and anticipation of the old film cameras if you have $20K+. They’ve also recently come out with a much more affordable version that runs $6k plus the cost of lenses.