58 dead by gunshot in Las Vegas: not a terror attack.
8 dead by truck impact in New York:totally a terror attack.
I’m sure glad the authorities are keeping track of this stuff for us!
No. Cowardice is the root of violence.
Fear that your words aren’t enough to get your needs met (usually mistaking want for need)
Fear of compromise (usually needing to make someone else lose to feel like you didn’t, false win/lose situations)
Fear of equality. (usually an inherent sense of superiority driven by a salf knowlege of averageness, which is not acceptable!! but is true)
Only cowards solve problems with weapons. Trust me. I knew a carrier pilot who cried himself to sleep every night. We’re all human. We could try to value one another.
We CAN learn boundaries and de-escalation and AUTHENTICITY.
If we want that world. Be the change you wish to see in this world.
I don’t have the intention to get involved in any of the discussions. But I wanted to celebrate the fact that the police apprehended the arsehole. And the tweet @xeni embedded is the most delightful reaction to this I can think of. Shot him in the arse, indeed.
The answer is “neither”.
But that doesn’t alter the fact that Americans are, to a variable degree [1], responsible for the actions of their country. Or that they, of all the people in the world, are in by far the best position to change it.
[1] Variation correlated on a gradient with personal power. Poor black woman? Not your fault. Financially comfortable white dude? With power comes responsibility.
while i agree with you – the slippery slope is that these sort of attacks have been used to justify even more war.
shrub had a moment after 9/11 where he could have radically changed the world for the better. a manhattan project for renewables to get us out of the middle east. ( and, “out” here means more than just war. it means the endless monies we’ve spent destabilizing countries with oil wealth. )
instead, we decided to sink even more money into war and destabilization. all on the premise that the usa should be able to do whatever it wants and there should be no consequences.
there are always consequences to war. and, unfortunately, this event seems like its one of those consequences.
( it’s also worthwhile to remember that our military attacks – while not deliberately targeting civilians – often accept a certain level of civilian casualties. according to one monitoring group under obama that was 2,300 to 3,400 civilian deaths; a number already surpassed during 45’s presidency. )
nobody has clean hands here.
Yes, lots of delusional people who chose their mode of attack or lashing out according to their culture.
However, there is one difference: There seems to be a huge network of ideologically motivated people putting out propaganda and how-to documents, far bigger than even the neo-nazis and anti-fa networks.
… supporting the Mujaheddin.
No need to shout anything. The deed speaks for itself. There won’t any Republicans in a bike lane.
Somehow I don’t think Alex Jones is about to get onto his soapbox and call this a false flag attack. There’s just something about this one, can’t put my finger on it.
Stay safe, and don’t give into fear. Muslims hate this too with the exception of the lone wolf types.
Those ISIS types don’t seem to be very good at this. They could clearly stand to learn a thing or two from our rightwing terrorists’ good old American know-how.
That’s a horrible analogy because the rock has no choice but to fall due to laws of physics. Terrorism and crime require a conscious decision to commit such acts.
If you look at other people who have been victims of bad things, many times they make decisions or take actions that directly lead to them becoming victims. Walking down a dark alley at 3am, flashing cash all night at the club, leaving your car door unlocked with a computer bag in the back seat, taking a realistic toy pistol to a park, not dropping a knife, allowing yourself to be alone with someone you don’t know, drinking to the point of becoming incapacitated, etc etc.
Using your logic that the resulting victimization is just the natural consequence of previous events is just as wrong in the above scenarios as it is in the case of this attack.
You have made it clear that wasn’t your INTENT, but intent or not that is what you said. That is what “coming home to roost” means. That ones actions and misdeeds will be met with consequences. Yet I believe most of us would agree that none of the above examples means the victim deserved the consequences of their actions. They are victims of people taking advantage of them.
Words have meanings. Pick different words if you meant something else.
Note - this isn’t ignoring the misdeeds of the US, but it doesn’t justify terrorism.
That’s true. Returning fire isn’t necessarily the right thing to do either.
Well it wasn’t just him calling for war, at least against Afghanistan. Oddly, domestic oil and gas production went way up under Obama. But I am not here to rehash the misdeeds of the past, as there were many.
Yes, but this isn’t war. It’s terrorism. Driving a bomb laden truck at an army outpost or setting off an IED is an unfortunately consequence of war. Driving a truck into random people who have nothing directly to do with said war is terrorism.
I agree with that, which is why I wouldn’t support the statement that citizens killed in an attack to hit say an ISIS leader also had “their chickens come home to roost”.
I’ve heard it described on CNN this morning as “the worst terrorist attack since 9/11”
CNN is to news what MTV is to music: loads of opinion and contrived controversy, wall-to-wall talking heads, a plethora of reality TV, but precious little actual music|news
That begs the question how responsible are American citizens for the wars our governments conducts, or the secret programs which aid and abet dictators. I could give you a long list of actions which led to the deaths of civilians in other countries, in the name of either the war on terror or stopping the fall of the communist dominoes.
How culpable are we, as American citizens, for the actions of our government? Are we more responsible than the people in China, who do not have the same kind of democratic processes we have here.
So, where does the buck stop? With us? With the government? With the individuals who regularly order air strikes?
And I don’t believe these are easy answers or that saying that this is a case of “the chickens coming home to roost” is helpful. I do think we need to stop acting as if these are actions of mad men, as opposed to actions that have some basis in the current geo-political climate. That doesn’t mean only blaming the US and us, but understanding the dynamics that we’re a part of that helps to create the atmosphere that ends in terrorist attacks.
Or maybe it is time to talk about how safe bike and pedestrian infrastructure actually does prevent deaths unlike most of our anti-terror panics. Last year 18 cyclists were fatally run over, with an additional 148 pedestrians. Some people will use humor as a coping mechanism, but the issue is real and the time to talk about is now, when people care.
You don’t vote? Your elected officials, from the President on down to your local city/county council members aren’t responsible to the rule of law and us? Just because we have a seriously compromised election system that puts distance between us and law making doesn’t mean that we don’t play a role in the functioning of democracy. And note that it’s not just about election day, either, but about other activities related to the functioning of society - petitions, getting involved in your kid’s school, engaging with your neighbors, marching for particular issues you believe in, communicating with your congressfolk, serving in a jury, spending your money in a way that reinforces your values, discussing important issues with others, etc. Of course, not all of us can do all of these things, but all of us can do some of these things, and that’s all part of democracy, too.
But, as imperfect as our system is, it’s not a dictatorship yet. We still can have a say in what happens here.
Now is not the time to talk about trucks plowing into people.
Tell that to our government, which made it a war round about 2001.
I think that’s a needed and valuable discussion. I live in a city with a growing number of people who bike about town and am keen to make sure that they are safe driving on our streets.
But @Nobby_Stiles was just making light of the dead, because they apparently aren’t real people to him.
