Just one of the posts you replied to:
BTW we’re in a thread about a terrorist attack in NYC (a city located in the USA).
Funny that he’s very eager to shut down immigration, change laws, and order the death penalty when a brown guy’s involved.
When it’s a white guy running over antifa protesters, they’re part of the “good people on both sides”.
And when it’s a white guy mowing down 500 people with ammo, well, stuff happens, I guess.
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I certainly agree. I didn’t vote for Donald Trump, that’s for sure – he’s taking it in the wrong direction quite extremely. I voted for Bernie in the primary, and supported him financially quite well. I voted for Hillary in the general, because I thought she’d be significantly less destructive to the USA and world at large than DT. Apparently the majority of Americans agreed with me, to the tune of almost 3 million, but because we don’t live in a functioning democracy here in the States, that didn’t count for much.
What specifically would you recommend? Personally I think I’d be a fantastic President of the United States, really, but I don’t see much of a pathway to that. Reasonable Democrats represent me in Congress, including Elijah Cummings. I definitely think the Democrats need a lot of fresh blood injected into the party, but I’m not going to win an election in Baltimore against Elijah Cummings, nor do I think that would be all that beneficial to the party.
So what, then? What are you doing? I’m certainly open to suggestions.
And that suddenly makes my point about French interventions in Africa… what?
I’d suggest stopping imperialist wars for a start and treating other countries as not just new market players.
But yes, good for you. You’re much more politically involved and are probably superior to me in every way. Bravo.
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Yeah right. In addition I point at my previous post.
One, he wanted to eliminate the threat of a pan-African currency, gold-backed currency, that Gaddafi wanted to establish, because he was afraid that it would devalue the franc. And he also wanted access to Gaddafi and Libya’s oil fields.
This sounds like grade-A goldbug conspiracy bullshit. For starters, the French franc does not exists and hasn’t existed since 2002, five years before Sarkozy became president. A pan-African currency has no realistic chance of becoming a thing, wouldn’t be a good idea if it did and backing it by gold is both ludicrous and totally impractical.
Forgive my intervention but this does exist, and it is a good thing. You are right that the french franc is no more, but the CAF does still exist.
And it is a great benefit to the region but also French government finances. France benefits from the seigneur-age of the currency.
I do not dismiss arguments that Qadaffi’s greatest sin in the eyes of France was suggesting a replacement for the CAF.
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Defensive much? All I asked for suggestions as to what an average citizen can do. Last time I checked, I hadn’t started any international wars – although who knows, it might be slipping my mind?
An interesting article on the NYC attacker in The Times:
Definitely doesn’t seem like he was much more than a garden-variety loser with anger management problems, and latched onto Islamic extremism well after emigrating to the USA.
I don’t think there’s really much difference between guys like this, and angry teens who shoot up their schools, and the guy who went ballistic in LV. They are losers, feel they should have amounted to more than they did, had delusions of grandeur, were depressed and angry, and wanted to go out with a bang. For a particular segment, ISIS and similar ideologies provide an easy outlet to express this fundamentally personal rage.
I think it is probably a mistake, to think of these as primarily political attacks. They are angry, violent suicides (or suicide attempts). We probably do more harm by over-thinking it, as this tends to lead to MORE military adventurism overseas, not less. IMHO, for what it’s worth.
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Or, to be more specific:
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What do you think was going to happen when Kaddafy died or for some reason stepped down?
People talk about “stable dictatorships” but it is a fiction. Dictatorships are always inherently unstable and on the brink of collapse. The efforts Kaddafy put towards keeping himself in power are the same efforts which hamper the development of a stable nation. The same ones which create the condition they have now. There was no kind of succession, rampant ethnic division/discrimination, and a military made up of nepotistic sycophants (whose previous battle experience was getting their butts kicked by Chadians in Toyota pickups See “Toyota War” for details).
Blaming intervention for the current conditions ignores the rot underneath the regime that was festering for decades.
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If not for the strict gun control laws in NYC, the guy could have killed far more people. 
The Las Vegas shooter killed more people in several seconds than this guy did driving a truck for a little while down a crowded bike lane.
Thats silly. First of all, lets remember how Qaddafi died. A bayonette up the arse. Secondly lets consider that his succession planning would have been for one of his sons. Saif seemed like a good bet to me. If you check who they are talking about now as the next most plausible Libyan leader - well Saif seems to be the favorite in as far as anyone is. If that happens what exactly would the violence have achieved? Other than a lot of death and a fair degree of hunger. And why does no one acknowledge that the place was a paradise before compared to its current effing disaster status now? I mean if you wanted a political career it was crap but if you wanted to raise a family, get a degree, get health care, not have your kids die, eat, its was a lot better before. Now who would like to stand up and take responsibility for fixing it for them?
Thing is Libya was fucked up cos its a post colonial state. Just like all the others. Multiple tribes vying for influence and power. Why was this post colonial settlement chosen to shake things up? Why not choose the infinitely more medieval authoritarian promoter of global wahabi terrorism? Whats their succession planning like? Its wonderful that woman can now drive cars but really, hardly the vanguard of human rights - except
As for dictatorships always being on the edge of collapse, well would you consider the Roman empire a democracy? The Persian Empire? Communist Party of China? Im not so convinced.
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Thats nothing. The inventors of the concentration camp kept their names out of the frame even more effectively. Thats what I call grade a+ propaganda. Specially considering they then used the same scheme elsewhere - Kenya for example. But lets give them credit - at least they used it against Aryans first.
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This seems relevant again:
The whole thing is worthwhile, but I’ve cued it to a particularly relevant bit.
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I think it may go this way, and I hope ours ends up resembling the Velvet Revolution more than, say, the Russian Revolution. Frankly, racist white folks seem the closest to heading in the revolutionary direction, and I don’t think that would be a good thing.
I also think things are going to have to get a lot more difficult for average people, before it comes to any kind of progressive, ideally socialist, revolution. I didn’t foresee the collapse of American politics happening quite so fast, and strangely, as Donald Fucking Trump ending up as President, but I think we’re still a couple decades off. Automation is going to take a lot more jobs over the next decade or two, and that will likely be a catalyst.
I also give decent odds to there not being a revolution that ever really amounts to much, and it’s all likely to go totally bonkers, once climate change picks up steam over the rest of this century and into the next. That’s going to cause a lot of unpredictability that will likely affect almost everything. Who knows, maybe that will end up being the catalyst for revolution. But I think it’s going to take a century or two for things to improve. I like to think I’m contributing to the foment of the progressive revolution as best I can. I don’t think any lasting revolution will happen, until humans embrace nondualism, so I do what I can to educate people about it. Nondualism is the final revolution, and evolution, of humanity.
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Yes, defensive.
I’m also not here to make you feel better about the role the US has played in the world, that has benefited both you and I. I also do believe that as voting citizens we bear at least some responsibility for our government’s actions. You and I didn’t start international wars, but our country sure as hell did. And we’ve been beneficiaries of such wars for a long time. People don’t live in vacuums.
Also, maybe try reading some of @Wanderfound’s threads here, as he’s been posting all sorts of useful stuff about how to be more political engaged or at least aware. Not like political engagement is a huge mystery, either. There are literally centuries of ideas and tactics people can employ to help shape the political landscape in their countries.
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By citizens in the 50 states and DC, yes.
Territories don’t get to vote for president, despite at least one of them being more populous than half the states that do get to vote for that!
I’d like us to come up with a definition of democracy that, say, you and lolipop could agree on. It gets so tired when discussion hang up on definitions, because then it’s just a fight over words, and not what they represent.
So, basically, I personally regret pointing out we’re a “republic”. I like the way you said it much better - You are correct. (you often are). The point is democracy in action, not in Websters.
Thanks for that. I have never seen before but I agreed entirely. He even has the accent I had before heading off to college. Norf London - irie!
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And succession to Kaddafy’s sons would have quelled the growing insurgency in the country? Not likely. Power was maintained by essentially turning the state’s resources against itself. . How much of the country’s oil wealth went into just repression or personal boondoggles of its leader. With or without UN intervention, the country was going to turn into a shithole. Probably another version of what is going on in Syria.
" And why does no one acknowledge that the place was a paradise before compared to its current effing disaster status now?"
Because its all relative. Dictatorship is great for smoothing over the cracks forming under the surface. Revolution and unrest is inherent to the system. You see the ouster as a sudden and unexpected event. I see it as the inevitability built into the type of government. What is interesting is that the point when Libya was most cooperative to the rest of the world was the beginning of its decline and the start of open civil unrest.
“As for dictatorships always being on the edge of collapse, well would you consider the Roman empire a democracy? The Persian Empire? Communist Party of China?”
The Roman Empire was never a model of stability. It was a parasitic state which started its fall when it ran out of territories to steal from. Rome was always teetering on the brink of famine and was constantly blackmailed by threats of cutting off its food supply. Persian Empire was falling apart by the time it was destroyed by the Arabs and then Mongols. The Communist Party of China is soooo stable that its oligarchs are stealing billions and parking it in real estate in the Americas and Europe.
None of those examples are societies that functioned during peaceful times. In fact peaceful conditions are largely what undermine them. Dictatorships survive only in conflict. Once people get a taste of relative comfort, they start demanding things like free speech, right to elect leaders, an end to being discriminated against.
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