Truck driver plows into people in New York bike lane, multiple deaths reported

This sounds like grade-A goldbug conspiracy bullshit. For starters, the French franc does not exists and hasn’t existed since 2002, five years before Sarkozy became president. A pan-African currency has no realistic chance of becoming a thing, wouldn’t be a good idea if it did and backing it by gold is both ludicrous and totally impractical. I also think the number of oil fields France has gained access to as a result of the shattering of the country into warring tribal regions is zero.

So I am going to treat your source as an entirely untrustworthy load of horse manure and not waste any further time with it.

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Believe what you want.

The Libyan currency thing is just an incidental detail, sourced from Blumenthal’s leaked emails. Blumenthal may have been repeating bullshit; I don’t know.

The point that I was attempting to highlight was not about that. The important points are:

  1. The terrorist groups operating in Libya were armed and supported by the West.
  2. Those terrorist groups are now wreaking havoc across Africa.
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The Bolsheviks would use me as cannon fodder, then execute me if I survived (they didn’t like anarchisty types). The Nazis would just execute me (trans people were among the first people to be targeted, using the records stolen from Magnus Hirschfeld’s clinic).

Based on that, I’d say bolshevik, as I would at least have a chance to get some kind of escape plan together.

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I’d have been murdered by the Nazis for slightly different reasons. And the Bolsheviks probably would have shot me as well; I talk too much.

But I’d still fight for the Red Army if the only other option was to surrender to fascism.

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Hi NickyG. So I’m glad you do want to discuss and happy to share my thoughts. So I am not surprised you met Uzbeks who left Uzbekistan. The previous Karimov government was reported to deal with those it considered its opponents by boiling them alive. Democracy was not tolerated and neither was religious fundamentalism. So lots of people were killed and tortured. What was the US governments position on the Karimov government? Cooperative. There is a lot of equipment and materiel in Afghanistan and the only way to get it out is overland via Uzbekistan. So with respect to the Wests love of freedom etc - well its suspended. And dissidents in Uzbekistan get boiled. I don’t blame the US for this but I think its instructive. People whose brothers get boiled alive look for answers. And in that part of the world one of the groups offering answers and a vehicle for fighting back are the Salafist groups.

The West’s policies in the Middle East make no sense to me. The people of Iraq suffer a brutal dictator? So we bomb the people of Iraq? Why go into Iraq to push them out of Kuwait and then implement a no fly zone? Why sanction the state to make obtaining medicine difficult for 10 years? UN estimates suggest 500k kids died when they didn’t need to because of the sanctions regime. Now consider Yemen. When the Saudis took out the power generation, water treatment, and all the food storage depots they guaranteed that a lot of people would die. Now there is the mother of all cholera epidemics. The Saudis do all this with US coordination and direct assistance. Why do we help them?

Why no self determination in Bahrein? In KSA? In Egypt? Why did we destroy Libya - does anyone really think Libya is better off now without Qaddafi? How have ordinary Libyans been helped by what we did?

Spreading death and destruction around the ME, supporting some hideous dictators (KSA - Bahrein - Qatar) while trying to unseat others - Bashar Assad etc - using the same Salafist groups we claim as the excuse for being in their country as our proxy forces.

In my case, there was one particular crime which made me despise the policies of the US and UK. This one

So for the punchline. If the US army showed up in my town and gang raped and killed my 14 year old daughter after killing the rest of her family to enable the crime, yeah, there is a good chance I would consider terrorism a reasonable response. If my sick kid died because of lack of medicines caused by a sanctions regime, yeah, I can imagine considering terrorism. And if my family were bombed by Saudis when attending the funeral of a family member, in a plane that was refueled by the US airforce, well yeah I might hold the US responsible.

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So you’re saying these things happened to this guy? Because to me, by all accounts, this is a guy who left Uzbekistan to come to the USA, and had a better life here than he likely did back in Uzbekistan.

No.

  1. I’m saying that where the US directly negatively impacted the life of a future terrorist why would you be surprised they had a grudge? Most of the senior figures in ISIS had been imprisoned by the US within Iraq. They had previously been respected army officers. Now they had nothing and their country was destroyed and the Shiia were now governing.

  2. I am nominally a Christian. I read the accounts of the Syrian orthodox church in Aleppo and their pleas to stop supporting the rebels in East Aleppo who were attacking them with mortars. It appears very few others read the same. Most Christians do not care about their co-religionists. Same with most Muslims. But NOT all. There are a sizable minority who answered the call to defend fellow Muslims for “Kufar” aggression. A lot of them came from North London or Bradford or the suburbs of Paris. My brother tells me one of his friends in North London is now a fundamentalist. Either a fundamentalist or a hipster - hard to tell with the beards. If the US and UK commit atrocities against Muslims, it will encourage jihadis to travel. I don’t know if you read the circumstances of the Abeer killing - but having read about it a long time ago I have no problem believing that this kind of thing will convince third parties of the injustice of US actions. It convinced me.

  3. If we are genuinely at war with Salafist terrorism, then why are our allies financing it, why does their money teach it in schools and why are we shipping the weapons they use to the war zones they are fighting in? Why are young muslims in the UK travelling to Syria, fighting for AQ, and then coming back to the UK?

So, yeah, maybe his family were flayed alive in Uzbekistan. Or maybe he just got in with a Salafist crowd. Or maybe he was an unstable guy who watched the “wrong” news shows. But US/UK policies in the region are totally immoral, totally impractical and do need to change in my humble opinion. The US/UK aint making friends, just terrorists.

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Yes.

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We have no disagreement on this point, not in the least.

The franc thing is on me - I didn’t get it from the limited context I got by skimming the excerpt. I still think pan-African currency is highly unlikely and that people generally pay disproportionate and misguided attention to “weakening” and “strengthening” of currencies.

As far as arming violent groups is concerned: Neighboring countries will have a strong motivation and tendency to intervene in one form or another in civil wars and other instances of substantive internal chaos - because the results often involve them directly, in the form of fleeing refugees or trans-border violence. Preventing and mitigating this mess is kind of a basic existential responsibility of a state towards its own citizens.
These interventions may be more or less wise, justified or competently executed. France in particular has a pretty shady history of attempts to shape the situation in Africa to its benefit and I’m sure a lot of their efforts have turned sour, particularly for the civilians on the ground who had no say in any of it.

The problem I have with this line of criticism is that the West is selectively targeted for something all interested parties do - and are to a degree obligated to do - and that the criticism is ever shifting and completely unrelenting and unforgiving, no matter the intentions and outcome:

  • Send in troops to prevent ethnic cleansing? Invasion! Those soldiers kill people! That massacre that was prevented? What massacre? It didn’t happen, so what am I to appreciate about it?
  • Don’t send troops? Why was the world silent and stood idly by when the Tutsi were massacred by the Hutu? Where is our commitment to our shared humanity? Just so much empty talk with no one willing to take action when one is needed!
  • Try to stay mostly out of it and just indirectly aid the side that seems either the least unsavory or most likely to produce an acceptable status quo? You are arming extremist militant groups which wreak havoc and terror across the continent!

It’s not that the criticism is unwarranted in principle - there are many, many horrendous blunders with catastrophic consequences which positively need to be called out. It’s that this criticism from the Chomskyist left has lost any constructive value and has devolved into substance-independent virtue signaling over greater personal wokeness on Western imperialism, abdicating on any actual responsibility for practical foreign policy.

Imagine a hypothetical scenario: A despotic ruler of an African country has been in power for a decade or so, advancing and privileging his own tribal/ethnic/religious power base at the expense of other groups, as you traditionally do in societies based on extended family relationships and blood feuds. This has necessitated a brutal repressive apparatus, kidnapping, torturing and murdering anyone mildly suspected of dissent. This crystallizes further dissent and creates a situation in which all the suppressed groups are just silently waiting for the first sign of weakness to overthrow the tyrant and exact their vengeance.

Then a Schelling event happens, signalling to all the waiting parties that the opportunity is here (oil prices collapse, there’s an attempted palace coup, someone dies, a major power invades the region…) Sparks fly, blood is spilled and the rebellion gains traction. Civil war is inevitable, as everyone has been sharpening their daggers for years, the only question being who comes out on top.

So what do you do as a neighboring country likely to be hit by whatever shrapnels come flying out of the wreck? It’s often corrupt despot v. religious fanatics, with some racial and sectarian tensions on the side, so no obvious partners to back. But there are civilians in the middle of it, refugees coming out of it and it’s disrupting the flow of basic resources your economy absolutely needs. So you intervene and get Libya. Or you don’t intervene and get Rwanda. Or you intervene too late and too little and get Syria. What you definitely get, no matter what, is unrelenting criticism, often from the same people, for the entire spectrum of available options.

It’s like the Eddie Izzard standup bit. Paraphrasing:

Pol Pot got away with it because he killed his own people. Hitler didn’t just kill his own people. Stupid man! After a couple of years, we won’t stand for that will we?

I want to win the real life fight and not have a world where my daughter will have to continue negotiating these very same things when she’s grown. But I don’t see that in the near future.

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A world in which no terrorism occurs is either going to have to wait for The New Age (which I am a bit of a believer in, I admit), or be a world of essentially total authoritarianism down to the point of chips in our brains to mind control us.

I’d like to live in a world where, as Nobby said, we are not making things worse around the globe with our military adventurist and mercantilist tendencies, and these things are less common, but we still have some semblance of freedom.

I don’t imagine that such a world will be 100% terrorism-free, and frankly, I’m OK with that. I see very little evidence that Earth has ever approached that, and in fact, there’s much evidence that life for humans today is better than pretty much any other period of documented history, in aggregate.

Now, if/when climate change kicks-in much more severely throughout this century and next, that may no longer be the case. I’d be significantly more concerned for your daughter about that, than terrorism. There is almost total certainty that she will never be directly affected by terrorism. There is almost total certainty that her life will be dramatically impacted by climate change over the rest of the 21st Century.

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There are ways to work towards a more fair and equitable world in which less terrorism happens because it doesn’t make sense.

Just throwing up our hands and doing nothing because the solutions aren’t easy isn’t a solution, it’s laziness.

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Shock doctrine.

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He sure did. So did Lenin, Stalin, the Ottomans, and Mao. So, today, is Kim Jong-un and so is Assad.

There are enough data points to make it non-anecdotal, I think.

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Ah, the magic Trump touch: fucking up the prosecution’s case before it begins. See also: President Nixon comments on Charles Manson.

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If we were to Venn diagram it, the circle of “all Muslims” would contain

the circle of “all Muslims who believe in the unity of religion and state” which would contain

the circle of “all Muslims who believe that flavor of religion/state should be Salafist” which would contain

the circle of “all Muslims who believe that doctrine should be spread into the non-Muslim world” which would contain

the circle of “all Muslims who believe that violence is an appropriate tool for accomplishing that” which would contain

the circle of all Muslims who actually take up weapons to do so.

Now you and I may believe that the western world should dialogue/work with different circles. (Personally, I draw the line at exporting state Salafism into countries where church and state are separate). I can accept that.

But I reject your statement above that I “group all Muslims together”. Not true.

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Would you be surprised to hear that not all discussions necessarily involve the United States of America?