That’s an example of the disconnect, though: we’re over here trying to understand why the Democratic Party and the “Left” have failed society, but all you’re interested in is pointing out that conservatives are hurting people. Of course they are. But why?
The article gave historical context showing that the same demographics (and in some cases the same actual people) who used to call themselves “left” or “liberal” now call themselves “conservative”. Why did this happen?
One explanation is that these people recognized that their interests as working class people were no longer the central concern of the Democratic Party, and so they had no reason for allegiance. Another explanation is that these people are simple, easily duped, and/or have no understanding of the finer workings of politics.
The lesson of one of these explanations is that the Democratic Party and establishment liberals are hypocrites, openly betraying/ignoring the interests of those they claim to represent. The lesson of the other is that liberals are the only clued-in people in a sea of ignorance.
Actually beefing up the military would probably help the economy. As of now, Republicans have been stripping away the benefits of military enlistment (active service benefits reduced, pensions cut, VA benefits cut). Weapons/equipment development has been moribund, enlistment is at its worst since the US first became an all volunteer military. Enlisted soldiers earning a living wage means more money in the hands of working classes. Military production means industrial work which can’t be outsourced.
Too bad Republicans aren’t thinking on those terms. Isolationism is still a thing among that crowd.
[quote=“johnd, post:68, topic:89005”]
The refusal to trade with a number of other countries like China will cause a collapse of some US industries whose business model is highly reliant on China as a manufacturing base. Your technological hardware businesses will be hard hit, such as Apple, Microsoft, Acer, etc.[/quote]
Not going to happen precisely because we are reliant on China as a manufacturing base. At no point can wages in the US be depressed low enough to make outsourcing to China undesirable. China also can’t do without our business. Right now we are where China is parking its wealth. Plus if US manufacturers get annoyed enough, they can move operations to India. India has also been a major purchaser of US military hardware as well.
The talk from Trump about doing away with the free trade agreements is all noise. Republicans in Congress don’t have the desire, inclination or motivation to make it more than a talking point. Their major money supporters love unregulated international trade. They don’t care about the actual working class which voted them in.
We are the US, we are always going to be the target for terrorists. The thing which has kept foreign born terrorism from being an ongoing thing in the US (as opposed to Western Europe) has been the lack of imposed ethnic ghettos among various groups here. Muslim populations in the US are a bit of a polyglot of cultures, are reasonably successful as working/middle class enclaves and have a great deal more social and physical mobility than their European counterparts. Jersey City, Deerborn Michigan, and “Tehrangeles” are hardly similar to the outer slums of Paris.
It makes it difficult for terrorists to hide or find support among them. Its why after 9/11 the terrorists here have been almost entirely “lone wolves”. Homegrown nutjobs who are pretty limited in scope and effect.
What gives you that idea? Everything he has done in his life up to this point has been to serve himself or his family. Suddenly I’m to believe he has the country’s best interests in mind?
I call Trump supporters ignorant, racist, stupid assholes because Trump himself not only provided no legitimate reason to vote for him, but provided a mountain of evidence, based purely on his own words, that he is a dangerous, racist, misogynistic asshole who would do serious damage to this country. A “strong leftist” was willing to destroy civil rights for women, gays, minorities, to set back attempts at income inequality, etc. etc. just because of some perceived message that you thought you were getting from some random people? Fuck no, that’s not a “strong leftist,” that’s a petulant child breaking shit. Everything else you write I can’t help but read as petulant mewling - your attributing all sorts of nonsense to me is not convincing me, it’s just seriously pissing me off. (I don’t even understand what you’re attributing to “my mind,” or what kind of straw man you think I am. I supported Bernie, and wasn’t all that enthusiastic about Hillary, myself.) Well hey, you want to be nihilistic? We got the dumpster fire that is Trump, and I’m more than happy to see anyone who supported him get burned. I just wish the rest of America wasn’t going to get burned with them.
What the fuck does that even mean? The Democrats need to be better at manipulating ignorant idiots? (I don’t disagree.) Who the fuck do you think is “you” here? Because frankly it sounds like you’re describing yourself. You know who gave the country to Trump? People who voted for him. A group that apparently almost included you. So I’m not sure how you can cast aspersions on others.
No you didn’t! You had two sides each sneering and spitting vitriol at each other and making no attempt whatsoever at honest debate.
Have you been reading BoingBoing this year? Posts making fun of Trump’s hair or hands or name far outnumbered any serious attempts to look at why he was so popular.
[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:661, topic:89005, full:true”]
I voted Hillary almost solely because I recognize how important the Supreme Court is, despite every fiber of my being crying for me to lash out at people like you who have been calling me things like that from day one of her fucking campaign.[/quote]
That is the only reasonable argument (in my mind) I’ve heard for a Hillary vote so far and it almost won me over. If Hillary hadn’t cheated in the primary to beat Bernie, I would have voted for her. It was my assessment that if I supported Hillary, it would be effectively supporting the corruption that won her the primary, and sending a message that it’s ok to do that. Hillary supporters could have held her accountable on that when we learned about it back in April, but they blindly supported her and had the nerve to tell me that I had to do the same. Nope. I didn’t. A lot of Bernie voters didn’t and I can see that is what cost Hillary the election. Now we have Trump and chance to beat the corruption out of both sides. There is a cost on social issues with those justices. I can see why people would be mad that I won’t have to pay it since my marriage is legal and I won’t be having any abortions. It wasn’t my mess to begin with though, so I don’t feel morally obligated to have to vote against my principles to pay it. I’ll still vote in favor of gay marriage down here in AL. I’ll still probably lose until culture shifts enough.
Trump’s position on gay marriage, and many other social issues, is that states should decide. I can get behind that position. I can only hope he picks justices that at least support that position as well, and not some fire and brimstone preacher wanna-bes. That would mean that blue states will likely gain those rights relatively quickly for those that don’t have them already, and that red states will have to wait for a cultural shift.
I will say, the hate coming out of the liberal side this time around is extraordinary. Some of them truly are as racist, sexist, and hateful as the worst of the conservatives. It seems like they were out in force on both sides this election and it is infecting some otherwise good people.
I didn’t get a lot of sleep. Last night, I had dreams of being chased and beaten by random strangers. The closest I could describe how today has gone is being smothered in the feeling one might have after a particularly horrible, yet possibly survivable medical diagnosis. Uncertainty looms. I have a kid on the way. The shock of things puts you into another place.
I keep thinking about Russia and WWIII, even though I don’t want to focus on things that feel improbable. Of course…that’s what I’ve been saying to myself this entire election concerning Trump. The evil, here, simply feels too surreal to comprehend. You’ve heard about civil rights atrocities, slavery…and other things done in official capacities that feel so distant and barbaric, your entire life. But when you see something unfolding before your eyes…I don’t want to be afraid.
I’ve been listening to this a lot today. At first, I tried to find comfort in something light, but it wasn’t really working to get me through the day. I don’t think this is either, but it feels right.
[quote=“daneel, post:677, topic:89005”]
4 years to find a new, positive candidate.[/quote]
And this is why what happened yesterday is still not as bad for us as Brexit is for the UK. The Democrats have the possibility of gaining the Senate in 2 years, and the WH again in 4. I’m not saying it is likely, only that the possibility is there. Our fundamental system of government remains the same. The UK, on the other hand, has seceded from their union, and that seems to be irreversible.
… and let’s not forget the never ending campaign cycles as well. I know many of us were ready for this to be over not long after it began only to have to put up with some 18+ months of this crap.
I may not agree with much of what you said, but I’m 100% with you here.
The 14th Amendment says otherwise. Civil liberties can’t be left in the hands of a majority vote. Every discriminatory law was passed by a majority vote. Without an underpinning of equal justice under the law, all you do is give political majorities the power to take away rights to political minorities with impunity. When it decided that states should decide issues of racial equality, we ended up with Jim Crow, Redlining, Blockbusting, voter intimidation and Sundowner laws.
This was Clinton’s election to lose. And she lost. A lot of the blame will fall on Clinton the candidate, but she only embodied the consensus of this generation of Democratic Party leaders. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost almost a thousand state-legislature seats, a dozen gubernatorial races, sixty-nine House seats and thirteen in the Senate. Last night didn’t come out of nowhere.
The problem with Clinton wasn’t her peculiarity but her typicality. It was characteristic of this Democratic Party that the power players in Washington decided on the nominee — with overwhelming endorsements — many months before a single ballot was cast.
They made a fateful choice for all of us by stacking the deck, decisively, against the kind of politics that could win: a working-class politics.Seventy-two percent of Americans who voted last night believed that “the economy is rigged to the advantage of the rich and powerful.” Sixty-eight percent agreed that “traditional parties and politicians don’t care about people like me.”
