What I’m suggesting is a direct analogy to kristallnacht. I’m not going to refrain from the comparison just because it was Jews in Germany then, Muslims now. There can’t be parts of history that we can’t bring up, or words that we can’t use, just because they are associated with a particular oppression of Jews. If we think of kristallnacht only as something that happened in the past and only reference it historically, or we think of a pogram as something that can only happen to Jews, we will fail to learn from history.
Eventually? You thing those bomb threats recently were a “just since Trump” thing? Sadly it aint so.
In the same sense that Jews recently spoke up regarding the White House statement on the Holocaust as denaturing the particular Jewish character of the history, I speak up now and wont back down. If, God forbid, your fears here come to pass, my Muslim cousins can have their own words as they would deserve, just as we deserve ours, as would be respectful of them.
American Jews gathered Thursday to wrestle with how they should confront an election-year surge in anti-Semitism, a level of bias not seen in the U.S. for decades.
ETA: Article date: Nov 17, 2016
And as such you’ve never used the word genocide, as that word applies only to Armenians, riiiiiiiight?
Your purity is noted. Your troubles are indeed the greatest of all.
If you don’t want to help, don’t. If you have to police language as your exclusive contribution to conversation, I’m not sure you’d be much help, or want any. Fear is the mind killer.
What part of “Never Again” did you miss? It’s not just to our people. I know that you know as well as I do that we’re taught that when the Mitzrihim were drowning in the Yam Suf, the angels started to sing, and Hashem rebuked them for celebrating the deaths of people. This is the sort of isolationist, unempathetic attitude that gives all of us a bad name.
Is dilution of the Shoah’s impact a real thing? Oh, yes, and I know that we’ve both witnessed it become a joke or a punchline. Godwin’s Law is a formulation of that dilution’s effect on discourse. But this is going too far in the opposite direction; sure, it’s not the Nuremberg Laws, but its definitely a step in that direction, and you need to rein in your knee-jerk “our persecution is special” reaction.
Any persecuted people, actually persecuted people, deserve their own dignity. We dont have a monopoly. Saying I said otherwise is putting words in my mouth.
Emphasis mine. Not putting words in your mouth here, but the only way I can read this in this context is as an assertion that Muslims are not being persecuted in the US, because, contextually, you’re arguing against the use of the comparison, and yet you say that “actually persecuted people” deserve their own dignity…
Not my intent to exclude any Muslims. A you probably know from talking to me for quite a while now, I dont veil my words.
That’s certainly true. Either way, it boils down to this in this case: You are arguing against the comparison to Krystallnacht because you feel that what we underwent in the 1930s is somehow unique and “not universal”. I disagree, and disagree emphatically, and feel that we don’t have to wait until people are being rounded up and shipped off to holding camps before we make the comparison. If you disagree with that, that’s your prerogative, but, being unveiled in my own word choice, all I feel that it demonstrates on your part is a lack of empathy. I’ve said it before to you that we can’t sit in our self-made shtetles and hide behind Gemaras and hope that the world will ignore us. Isolationism will not save us.
And, most importantly of all, צֶ֥דֶק צֶ֖דֶק תִּרְדֹּ֑ף . “Justice, Justice, you shall pursue.” Not ignore and hope that the injustice will go away.
You are arguing something different than what I am. I am entirely in support that every citizen of the US is treated equally under the law and deserving of equal protection and dignity. Nothing less. as I clearly said above:
And let me repeat God Forbid such should happen to them in the US.
It’s funny, though.
Germany’s plan for invading France in WWI was to draw France’s army to the German border, and then to invade via Belgium and take Paris while the French army was out of position. They failed (because they were stopped before they could capture Paris).
So, after WWI, France built a whole bunch of defenses on the France-Germany border. And then in WWII, Germany (successfully, this time) invaded via Belgium.
Had France actually tried to fight the previous war, by putting the same kind of defenses on the Beligian border that they had on the German border (“Sorry, mes amis, these aren’t meant for you, but to prevent a repeat of history”), they might not have been conquered. Or, at least, they might have given the Germans a much more difficult time of trying.
One name who I haven’t heard mentioned by anyone else is CasaPound (Wikipedia link, because I won’t directly link to them). They are one of the creators of the Alt-Right.
Look at their strategy/tactics, not those of 80 years ago.
Using Kristallnacht as an analogy to what might happen to Muslims in this country is an honor and a furthering of “never forget”
If a purge were to occur, hashem forbid, and it were also actually called Kristallnacht, that would be a dilution. That’s not what he’s saying. He is seeing a potential for horrors and applying the only word that exists in language to analogize with.
As Mark Twain supposedly said, “History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes.” A right wing populist offering to make the country great again and galvanising hatred toward a group associated with the Middle East? I’ve heard something similar before, and I know the next point in the sequence.
Let’s get back to this. And, based on what I’ve seen Bannon and Co. doing, yes.
I’m personally concerned it’s aimed at New York and am making a plan to have in place the same way you have a location to meet the family down the block if the house is on fire. It’s better to have a plan you can ignore.
Who is it that you think would be carrying out the violence in this case?
I’m not as concerned with the pretext as the subtext.
What the ‘thing’ is that happens isn’t as important as what it will be leveraged to justify, and how.
Either the military, acting on what seem like legal orders at the time, or local police forces. For goodness’ sakes, we’ve already seen people turned away and visas revoked at the border based on a executive order, not a law actually created in Congress. People only “doing their job” and “not being political.”
To be frank, it would be people “only following orders.” Again.
You gots to be ready 24/7/365. Those motherfuckers deserve cockpunches before and after breakfast as far as I’m concerned.