There has been a lot of work recently on Soviet War crimes in Germany after the war, especially the mass rapes of German women fleeing the Red Army. It’s true that the Russians and other Slavic people were targeted by the Nazis, but it seems like it was an effort by the Soviets at collective punishments of the German people. Like it or not, the Soviets were part of the allies at the time. I suspect that the US, GB, and France were well aware of this at the time, and this informed their decision making process to not pursue collective punishment - that and the Cold War itself emerging by 47/48. Denazification was put on the back burner by both the west and the Soviets because of the cold war. I’d argue that total denazification didn’t happen because of the Cold War, in fact.
Fair enough. I was mostly focused on the Western Allies’ response. Things were a lot uglier in the Russian occupation zone. As I recall, Stalin supported the Morgenthau plan. Still, there were Soviet judges at Nuremberg, even though they were very harsh in comparison to the Western powers’ judges on the tribunal.
[apologies for participation in this de-rail. It’s interesting stuff to me, but might be better forked to its own topic]
That was adopted prior to FDRs death? The wikipedia does note that Churchill was not a fan of the plan, and Truman had more disinterest in normalizing relations with the Soviets. He was very much in agreement with Churchill on the inability to work with them post war. FDR was hoping to moderate Stalin via engagement. Churchill and Truman just wanted to freeze him out and contain him. Hence two bombs on Japan and moving ahead with restructuring Germany society along capitalist lines. I suspect that had FDR still been alive, things might have been a bit different with regards to Stalin. Whether or not he could have moderated him, that’s harder to say, as a counter factual (I do wonder why no one has written that alternate history of the Cold War, if FDR had lived to finish out his term?). Possibly not. Staling was an unrepentant authoritarian, there is little doubt about that.
Yes. FDR supported the Morgenthau Plan, in part for the reason you mentioned. It seemed to him a way of satisfying Stalin’s lust for revenge while not giving him things like executing every German officer without trial after the war.
Yep. Again, FDR saw value in engagement, even with a tyrant like Stalin. I suspect that he was really looking to the post-Stalin era, because he knew it would have to come sooner rather than later.
It’s probably worth noting the FDR’s post-war aims were incoherent, to put it mildly. He saw the dismantling of empires (at least the European variety) to be a welcome side-effect, but other than some lofty principles, he just didn’t have the energy or focus toward the end of the war to push anything like a viable, comprehensive plan.
He did, in fact believe that personal engagement of Stalin would bring the Soviets around to American interests, and in that he was just woefully wrong. At Tehran, FDR met with Stalin privately to reassure him that it would be the US and the USSR, not relics like Churchill, who would sort out the future of Europe, like proper gentlemen. He never realized how much Stalin was playing him, and thought to his death that the same charm he used on American politicians would work on someone like Stalin.
ETA: It feels like sacrilege to say, but it probably benefited FDR’s legacy to have died when he did–we avoided seeing what would have resulted from his post-War decisions. Truman was handed mess when it came to post-war strategy, and a lot of the criticism of his early Cold War decisions I think are more properly laid at FDR.
I find it interesting to see him excoriated for using nukes against Japan when it was his decision to NOT use them in Korea that was largely responsible for setting them aside as a weapon only to be used against an existential threat, rather than simply as bigger bombs whose use could save aircrews and avgas.
Very much agreed. (To say nothing of the fact that it was much more of a lack of a decision to not use them re: Japan than it was an affirmative decision to use them—which it would have been difficult if not impossible to see any other President acting differently (but we both know there be dragons on this topic))
I voted for Clinton. The shitgibbon in office is not my responsibility.
Voting != being responsible for the results, unless you voted for those results.
Oh, and I also voted with my feet. I am now living much more happily in France, using my doctorate to help French students Kick American Ass. Because the US is a shithole nation at this point. Thanks, Rethuglicans!
Maybe. Maybe not. Why did those people not vote?
Because they were thrown off the voter rolls?
Because they couldn’t get off work?
Because ‘None of the Above’ wasn’t on the ballot?
Because they feel that politics is hopelessly corrupt & want no part of it?
Because they feel their vote won’t matter?
Because they don’t care?
There are probably many more reasons than these,
I don’t think that many non-voters could be ‘held responsible’ for Lord Dampnut. It seems to me that a sizeable portion of his votes were votes of despair, and that would account for at least a couple of the above categories. Those people saw a possible out, since Hillary was/is just another Corporate Tool foisted upon us by the DNC, & they wanted no part of her or it.
I think a sizeable portion of blame goes to the failed election strategy of her campaign. She/they took far too much for granted.
Even if she had won, there would still be Moscow Mitch, et. al. to deal with.
Actual marginalized people such as the minorities, immigrants, LGBT people etc. left behind by mainstream political parties—that is, the people who have the most reason to despair—mostly saw Trump as the threat he was. They didn’t see him as an “out,” they saw him as an even bigger danger.
I’d argue they were votes of driving trollies and in favor of white supremacy, given that was one of the core things he was running on (the wall, keeping out brown people, etc). He literally ran on keeping brown people out. Even if they were voting out of despair, they were still voting for the openly white supremacist candidate.
I’m sure rampant misogyny had nothing to do with it… /s
