By following the timetable the Bush administration brokered with the Iraqis? S. F. Vulgarian has been uttering revisionist history these past couple weeks. Little to no credit is due to Obama.
10 Likes
I think that’s right. Iraq it turns out was a really really dumb idea. As opposed to a just a really dumb idea.
1 Like
Remember how stupid we thought W was? This looser makes W look like a freaking genius.
8 Likes
Sounds to me like Reagan created ISIS.
5 Likes
Don’t be ridiculous.
The Ancient Egyptians founded ISIS.
32 Likes
We’ll know this conversation of cause-and-effect is going somewhere when politicians start quoting Heidegger. Except for Trump, who I’m pretty sure is constitutionally incapable of that, even if fed to him via teleprompter.
6 Likes
He was close though! Real close to saying a thing. The troops should have stayed where they never should have gone. I’m a little bit proud of him.
10 Likes
So I do think US actions created ISIS. The common thread seems to be that most of the senior figures in ISIS met in US run prisons. And I guess that the US could have acted sooner to shut it down. I remember seeing pictures of an ISIS victory parade through Fallujah I think, and it was a beautiful clear day with black flags flying in the breeze. I remember thinking what a nice day it was for ground to air bombing. And yet they never bombed them. I assumed they wanted them to destabilize Assad.
2 Likes
I think I will join you. The sun is actually out today in Seattle and I have yardwork that needs to be done.
5 Likes
it’s one of his slightly more substantive points
Absolutely not.
ISIS is, literally, the same group that we used to call “al Queda in Iraq”. They were formed in the mid-2000s, after the US invasion of Iraq. They’ve had some leadership shakeups, some rebranding and a couple of mission statement rewrites since then. But the organization has been around since before Obama was a Senator.
And the troop removal was done as required by a deal that Bush signed before Obama was elected.
15 Likes
What mildly needles me is the reasonable opposition’s tendency to write off his ramblings and dismiss his words rather than to take him at least somewhat seriously as someone that about half the country is going to actually want as president in November.
Because writing off his ramblings as inane and incoherent does jack all nothing to help any of the people he’s currently hoodwinked into voting for him, while they’re hearing Trump raise what (to them) is A Good Point, and seeing his opposition derisively laugh at him for it…making Trump much more sympathetic to them (because they feel like this a LOT - people are laughing derisively at them for saying things that, to them, are Good Points).
But I may be more inclined to suffer fools than most. 
The threshold for “slightly more substantive” for Trump is very low.
In this instance, it’s hypothetically possible that in some potential world Obama managed to more successfully stem the tide of ISIS, somehow, maybe with a magic unicorn or something.
In that this isn’t simply a pure fabrication, it is ever-so-slightly more substantive than 90% of what comes out of his mouth.
2 Likes
That’s exactly how we lost in Vietnam!
8 Likes
Christ these debates are going to be something.
4 Likes
Having groups refer to you by your full name sure is quite an honor!
When I get a letter from the IRS or some such organization it reminds me that to them I am a founder of the USA, and practically their god.
1 Like
Was this a parade where only terrorists were invited to watch as spectators? Or do you think that possibly US forces chose not to bomb the city because THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN FALLUJAH WERE CIVILIANS?
I can’t think of any faster way to create terrorists than indiscriminately killing innocent people in their own homes.
7 Likes
–I get that he speaks to the economic problems of many that have been largely ignored by those in power. (of both parties) So he SEES problems that the “elites” decline to see. What I don’t get is how anybody could listen to this man and think that HE is the solution to ANYTHING.
2 Likes
Heh, fair enough. What helps me understand this is scarcity psychology
And I think the people who are desperate and scared and lashing out and doing dumb things because of it deserve compassion…Trump isn’t going to give it to them, but I think Hillary and her crew should.
1 Like
Since he’s also blaming Obama for starting the war, he seems to have simply mixed up Obama and George W…
“He didn’t found ISIS, OK? I never said that he did. Believe me.”
6 Likes
Does anyone remember when the Bush administration said that by fighting terrorists “over there” in Iraq, we could avoid fighting them “over here” in the US? And that the more terrorists who flocked to Iraq to take on the US forces there, the better?
As Sterling Archer might put it, “Do you want ISIS? Because it turns out that that’s how you get ISIS.”
7 Likes
