technically, technically,
2 Likes
Yeah, over at Opening Arguments podcast, they were second- and third-guessing the DOJ’s approval of Dearie, assuming that, if Trump’s team wanted Dearie, Dearie (who had had work experience in NYC) must somehow be beholden (in same way AG William Barr was). Because Trump’s second preference for special master was an obvious (and easily disqualified) quisling.
But, no, it appears Trump’s team, again, failed their umber leader, and incompetently managed to pick a competent candidate.
5 Likes
I’m not sure where you are getting this. We can and we should set this extraordinary precedent when faced with such extraordinary circumstances.
The true lesson is to not set a precedent of electing leaders who are so eager to commit crimes and risk jailtime.
3 Likes
Which everyone fucking said would happen, and it did.
Seriously, Republican voters need to be squirted in the face and given time out to think about what they did.
13 Likes
16 Likes
Exactly. There’s a profound difference between “throwing a former President in jail because he upset the current President” and “throwing a former President in jail because he was formally charged, convicted and sentenced for a crime after being afforded due process in a court of law.”
22 Likes
We have a long precedent of jailing former leaders-here in Illinois we imprison ex-governors quite often. As a country the US hasn’t had to jail a former president before, but that’s because Nixon resigned and was subsequently pardoned.
10 Likes
Yeah, exactly the point I initially made. This law has been used mostly to silence whistleblowers, not to prosecute actual wrongdoing. And Trump isn’t a whistleblower. Again, I would love to see it happen. It’s not going to. I’ve been hearing “We got him now!” for 6 years. And fuck all has actually happened to Trump himself. Why would that change now?
1 Like
I get it from the whole of American history, where rich white men have committed all kinds of crimes and atrocities and almost never get anything other than a slap on the wrist. I would love for that to change, but why does everyone here seem to think that the DOJ is suddenly going to start meting out justice fairly? Because Merrick Garland is AG? Because Biden is President? Really? Trump is going to get fined because the law allows for a fine and no jail time, and they aren’t going to put a former President in jail unless he murdered someone or attempted to sell classified documents, and that last one is going to require some hard evidence.
1 Like
That stuff won’t change if we give up and pretend like it can’t change, because that’s how it’s always been. I’m not advocate for a march of history towards inevitable progress, but when people push for justice, it can and does happen - not always, and not without pushback, but just giving up won’t change shit. That much we know to be true.
8 Likes
I’m not giving up. But I don’t have the power to change this just by believing it will. Part of the reason I went to law school at the age of 50 was to be able to do something, even if it’s a tiny drop in a massive ocean. And that’s what it will be. I will enthusiastically celebrate my wrongness if Trump ends up in jail. I just don’t see it happening.
The more we say we don’t accept him getting off, the more likely it will be that he’ll be held responsible for what he did. We have to put pressure on our government to do the right thing here, or it will end up being the case, and that’s it. Any hope for an actually democratic future is gone. Putin, trump, Bolsanaro, all the other authoritarians will have won.
Public opinion actually does matter, and that should be backed up with support for candidates that promise to uphold the actual rule of law (not that racist, law and order bullshit version either) and to respond to what the public wants and needs to improve all our lives.
9 Likes
Others have replied to this sentiment already but I’ll just note that there’s plenty of recent precedent, even in large, stable democracies, for former heads of government to be jailed after being duly tried and convicted of crimes.
Just a few examples:
- Kakuei Tanaka - Prime Minister of Japan jailed for bribery in 1983
- Moshe Katsav - President of Israel jailed for rape conviction in 2010
- Ehud Olmert - Prime Minister of Israel jailed for bribery in 2014
- Han Myeong-sook - Prime Minister of South Korea jailed for Bribery in 2015
- Lee Wan-koo - Prime Miniter of South Korea jailed for Bribery in 2016
- Choi Kyoung-hwan - Prime Miniter of South Korea jailed for Bribery in 2018
- Ma Ying-jeou - President of Taiwan jailed for leaking classified information in 2018
(There are many, many more examples from other countries but I was narrowing it down to some that most people would consider to be modern, large democracies that have not had major changes to their governing structures in recent decades.)
9 Likes
A Monty Python audio classic - cued to the right spot, but worth listening to the whole:
2 Likes
This came on the other day and (while I was a little kid when this was recorded) it seems as timely as ever.
4 Likes
Who Will Throw the Book at the Bushies? – Mother Jones
The Room Where George W. Bush Goes on Trial Every Night - POLITICO Magazine
2 Likes
Bullshit. You don’t know that. This case is what the fucking law was written for. If not now, then the federal government might as well just post every classified document on Facebook, because it means fuckall.
ETA: There is no sign the DOJ is treating this like some silly minor whitecollar crime. They are throwing weight behind this. Garland may be somewhat milquetoast, but whoever is running this from the DOJ is going for it. Garland isn’t going to hold them back.
9 Likes
I’m happy to upset them. I don’t want to give them useful legal precedents they can weaponize.
The true lesson is to not set a precedent of electing leaders who are so eager to commit crimes and risk jailtime.
This ^^^
1 Like
Better to send them a strongly worded letter asking them, politely, not to do it again, I guess… 
And we can’t change the fact that he was elected already. We can only move forward with ensure that there are real consequences for their actions… You don’t deal with a bully by letting them do whatever they want. You stand up to them.
14 Likes
