Challenge accepted!
I think we’re done here.
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Yeah, I kind of walked into my own dumb trap there. There’s no emoji for self-facepalm, so you’ll just have to accept that I’m admitting what I said there about “right” was silly and incorrect. I just meant that I would never glorify violence of any kind.
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They call it “LARPing”
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I like the slant of your jib!
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This guy gets it
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Regardless of ethical considerations (whether “we must not stoop to their level” or “punching Nazis is a deontological obligation”), is there any data on the practical value of this this sort of tactic – i.e., on balance, does it deter or encourage fascists?
Intuitively, it seems like it should be a deterrent; but historically, fascists have been quite keen on both street-fighting and martyrs (e.g., Horst Wessel).
(For avoidance of doubt, I’m not talking about violence in the face of a Falangist-style coup. I’m talking about how we avoid getting there in the first place.)
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I believe that humiliation and shaming can work wonders. Against an army? No. Against someone who commands the allegiance of thousands? No. Against a mob marching down Main Street? No.
Against some guy on the bus? Sure.
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Does this concept still exist?
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In the situations of the 1930s, the problems emerged because there were equally thuggish Communist groups like Red Front who weren’t shy about initiating violence themselves as a matter of movement policy. Except for a tiny handful of incidents where an anarkiddie broke ranks and started a fight (the incidents that feed the MSM’s and conservatives’ false equivalencies) the antifa movement has been very good on movement discipline so far, thanks in part to the efforts of serious anarchists. The juggalos also aren’t inclined to start fights.
As for fascist martyrs, not surprisingly they tend to awful people who only attain high stature outside the movement faithful after the right-wing thugs take power. A lot of manufacturing went into Wessel’s “martyrdom”: he didn’t die in a street fight but was shot in an argument with some other lowlifes (who happened to be Communists) involving unpaid rent and a dispute over who “owned” a prostitute (Wessel was a part-time pimp).
If we start seeing running street battles alternately started by groups of thugs on both sides it’s time to worry, but a situation like this where an individual Nazi mope antagonises someone who isn’t a member of an antifa group and who isn’t shy about using violence doesn’t raise alarm bells with me.
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Thats the thing… a mob of people decides it’s ok to attack/assault/kill/lynch a person because of ‘reasons’ , Right or Wrong goes out the window and the bloodlust takes over.
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“Some people have a way with words, and other people…oh, uh, not have way.”
–Steve Martin
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Boing Boing promoting violence? Great. How about following the law and calling the cops to sort it out. Sounds a bit better than Vigilante “justice”.
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My issue with Nazi punching, it is an incredibly privileged action - it’s really only an option available to a white male, and even then only the white males physically able to defend themselves if the situation escalates beyond that punch* Everyone I’ve seen publicly doing or defending it is a white male. Then white males turn around and pat themselves on the back and say you can thank me later.
It’s probably not something you can pull off if you’re coloured -the cops will come down on you, or it will just confirm their fascist beliefs. You yourself will become internet fodder.
I also worry that maybe a lot of people are condoning these actions without considering how the actual victims of fascism want people to respond - how would MLK feel about Nazi punching as a tactic? Not that I expect every black person or Jew to have the same opinion on it.
And where does it end? Do we start punching anti choicers, tax evaders, climate deniers, creationists, spouse abusers or anyone else we deem morally repugnant?
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You can get anything you want, at Alice’s Restaurant
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I understand Nazis maintain a list of people they deem morally repugnant.
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A lot of things didn’t stop Hitler and Mussolini, that doesn’t mean we should stop them.
The fundamental narrative of the fascist is that the strong rule the weak through violence and intimidation. By punching a Nazi you’re just reinforcing their narrative. The only message you really communicate is that they need to bring more violence, which ultimately sucks for everyone.
Vigilante’s erode the rule of law.
If you really want to do something then suck it up and act like a grownup. Punching dumbasses isn’t going to solve anything, insisting on reasonable is.
If you want to know what my ideal form of government is it’s one where the leaders can acknowledge 2+2=4. Trump fails that, as did Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and every other crappy leader to walk the earth.
If you want a healthy society drop the rhetoric and advocate for an objective reality. Don’t let them choose a playing field where violence wins the day.
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