Just about to suggest the same resource.
Membership numbers are understandably hard to estimate since most of those groups aren’t exactly eager to share their rosters.
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Here’s my problem with your rhetoric and focus:
You’ve been primary focused on protecting and advocating for those groups that have, historically, been the ones responsible for the creation of camps and mass graves, and have not been paying anywhere near as much focus for the ones that have traditionally filled such locations.
In doing so, you have routinely engaged in the false equivalence fallacy, the slippery slope fallacy, the false dilemma fallacy, the balance fallacy, victim blaming fallacy, and goalpost moving.
In this case, you are claiming that you, due to “family history and academic study”, that, when you see the act of dehumanization as a prelude to internment and genocide, you call it out. However, in this case, you are acting in defense of those who have chosen a leader in which this is his stated goal, and the stated goal of many of his supporters.
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Funny. I always find myself scanning trump gatherings, too. I look for faces of supporters in the crowd that are not white. It usually takes a while to find one. Sometimes I don’t find one at all.
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I think that careful study of history will show you that all sorts of people have ended up in those camps and graves. Being of the wrong tribal affiliation, being educated, believing in some irrelevant religious minutiae, having employed too many people. Supporting Communism, not supporting Communism. There are a bunch of those graves, and people have been put in them for reasons that usually seem trivial to the outsider.
I am not advocating for Trump supporters, or any kind of extremist or supremacist. I do honestly believe that most Trump supporters have humanity. And most HRC supporters. Whether either of the candidates themselves actually have souls might be up for debate, and I honestly don’t care what anyone believes about that.
Concern troll is concerned. It’s not a denial of someone’s humanity to note that they support Trump, but rather an acknowledgement of how low a person can go.
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We might not be as far from that as you think. Fun fact: Trump has campaigned on rounding up over 10 million immigrants and their children for deportation in the span of a few years. It’s hard to get figures for how many Trump supporters agree with the whole plan right now, but I found a 42% from earlier this year, with higher numbers anti-immigrant in more general ways, and of course by definition none consider it a deal breaker.
Now you can work out what such a round up would look like, how an effort to collect so many people all at once is likely to handle them. (Takei made some widely circulated remarks about the subject, as someone who knows camps.) You might also look up Operation Wetback, and the cruel and sometimes fatal neglect with which it treated a small fraction of that number, seeing as how Trump has spoken highly of it as a model.
Or you can tell us this – you asking us to be more indulgent to those supporting that hollow man, with no word on their targets – this is you focused on the issue of rounding people up and calling out what leads to it. You know, when you see it. Christ, are you really that blind to what is being asked here?
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Let me be a bit more clear, then in what I specifically meant by my statement:
From what I have seen of your posts and the focus thereof: You routinely advocate for majority groups, military, and police, and not for minority groups or the victims of police. The former (i.e. the majority members and enforcement groups) have always made the mass graves and concentration camps that the latter (i.e. minority groups and outsiders) end up filling. Your statement here is a false equivalence statement that attempts to decontextualize the reasons for the creation of those camps and graves. This is done by ignoring that the creation of such atrocities are due to the majority oppressing the minority, in whatever local social context they may be in.
And, in the context of the US politics, the risk of there being reeducation camps for Trump supporters versus the risk of there being internment and deportation camps for minority groups ranges from about nil to “stated policy to be implemented”, respectively.
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Hey, it’s not him or anyone he loves who’s going to suffer the most; so why should he care?
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I agree that it is currently unlikely that Trump supporters are going to end up rounded up and gassed. For one thing, a bunch of them are armed. I also hope that all of this hateful rhetoric will subside once the election is over. But chenille had a valid point about the rounding up of illegal immigrants. I am not an open borders person, but I would absolutely have to fight any attempt to round all those people up. not oppose, but fight.
I really do not like Trump, and the idea of him being elected is depressing to me. I really tried to enter this discussion on the point of opposing the stereotyping anyone attending one of his speeches as lacking humanity. I do associate that with the recent instances of people having to pass through a gamut of angry, spitting protesters, just for having attended. That made a big impression on me. To me, that is 1933 all over again. But apparently those associations are not commonly shared here.
I do thank everyone for their time and patience.
I take that to mean it happened once, in Asheville.
Meanwhile, getting beat up at Trump rallies is a common occurrence. Where’s the equivalence?
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You really are fond of the false equivalence fallacy, aren’t you? It certainly is 1933 all over again, but the people who were doing the spitting on other groups in 1933 were also the ones that eventually built the death camps six years later that killed 90% of my extended family.
At this point, it’s become patently apparent to me just who you find the most association with.
However, I do not doubt that you are human and have humanity, as do the worst of the groups that you routinely advocate for. And, if the worst should come to past, that humanity in those groups is why they shall be found culpable for their atrocities in a human court of law.
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Yes, and surely that’s the main thing preventing them from being rounded up and gassed. Them mostly not being minority groups, the fact that there actually hasn’t been any serious talk of rounding them up, and the fact that finding a cohesive group that is more of a majority than they are to do the deed would be difficult, are minor details.
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When have members of any Nationalist movement been rounded up and gassed by forces in their own country?
Genocides don’t target flag-waving members of the ethnic majority.
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China, 1949
Equivocation fallacy. The Chinese Nationalist Party of 1949 during the Chinese Civil War was not a Nationalistic Fascist or a Nationalistic Supremacy party, despite the name. @Brainspore, am I correct in inferring that your statement was intended to specifically mean “Why have members of any Nationalist Supremacist movement been rounded up and gassed by forces in their own country?” I infer this by the context of your comment about “flag waving members of the ethnic majority”. Additionally, there is a significant difference between an ongoing civil war between two different factions targeting enemy belligerents and troops and an ideological campaign of extermination.
Also, being pedantic, neither gas nor other chemical weapons were used on the Chinese Army, nor were they rounded up and massacred in mass graves as an organized campaign of ideological extermination (beyond the general point that, yes, it was a war, and, unless I’m misunderstanding things, troops still engaged in hostilities are fair game for the opposing force to kill).
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So you’re comparing Maoist rebels to Clinton supporters.
That’s a pretty absurd stretch.
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I only mentioned this one because I had family there. But I suppose you are right about the gas. Their mass killing was not quite that sophisticated. I considered making note of that, and I should have. It was more “rounded up and put into camps, then shot, starved or frozen to death”. I would definitely call it an “organized campaign of ideological extermination”, where the dead ended up in mass graves. If it was just a civil war, they would not have rounded up and killed all the non-combatant “class enemies”.
We still have a blanket from one of those camps. The idea was, they made sure that there were always fewer blankets than prisoners. Without a blanket, you froze to death. Sometimes you died anyway, and there would be fights over the dead person’s blanket. It kept the prisoners in conflict with each other, I think.
I dig you but then again, meeeh, they goto public gathering and crowd near where camera be.
Well. That’s quite horrific, and I will admit that I did not know about the specifics. I assume that you are specifically referencing the “Campaign To Suppress Counterrevolutionaries”, aka Zhen Fan, and the Laogai system of work camps?
If that is your background, I can understand why you have made the emotional false equivalence between Maoist revolutionaries and anti-Trump protestors. However, that does not make the two equal, nor does it make the situations equal.
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That made me think of the ADL’s marking “Pepe the Frog” as a racist meme:
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