No, they typically aren’t, but it’s standard for vegans to avoid all animal products, whether the animal is slaughtered or not.
Like I said I have no problem with veganism, I’m not going to fault anyone for that choice, but not everyone can afford to make that choice, and it’s also not a magical cure-all for the problems of the world (and I know vegans who think it is.) If it were easy and cheap more people would do it. I personally would prefer to be a vegetarian for health reasons, but I’m not a good enough cook to keep my diet interesting and filling. I go through periods of vegetarianism, but end up falling back on meat, mostly chicken.
Most groups have a relatively small subset of extremists. They make a lot of noise, and for many outsiders who don’t mind thinking in terms of lazy stereotypes, they come to represent the group as “typical” members of the group, when they’re not – they’re unusual extremists.
I’ve known many vegans, and exactly none of them spend time trying to tell others how to live.
I may know lots of vegans who never mention veganism, but then others who do will be preachy about it, so they become the face of the community to me. That’s how it works for any group. You’re using your own anecdotal evidence to dispute mine when neither of us have the whole picture.
Not having a problem with anyone making that choice is different from the response to veganism that you described here:
As I read it, that’s instead about how you think of vegans in general. You’re saying that you let extremist outliers become the face of, representatives of, the community. That strikes me as unfair to those who are not preachy about it. And yeah, I have no solid proof that they’re majority of the community, but I do think you’re being unfair to them if the “preachy” ones represent for you (as they obviously do for so many others) the “face” of the vegan community.
I assure you I know the face of the community isn’t necessarily the whole body. I’m not sure how much I let that subset influence my impression. Can you say you don’t let extremist subsets of other groups influence your impression of the whole? Evangelicals, hunters, gun owners, sports fans, etc. etc. etc.?
[Edit: to be fair, in some of those groups it’s hard to tell which part is the subset and which is the whole-- evangelicals for example-- but I know several very lefty hunters/gun owners, and most sports fans don’t paint their faces and get into riots.]
I was reminded of the same news item… It’s really hard for me to work up any outrage about such storiess This culture is doing so many goddam things wrong, that to focus on one facet of existence and make that the hill you’re gonna defend… It’s just a drop in the bucket.
It doesnt matter to me if it’s vaccines or radio waves or animal cruelty or slave labor you’re trying to protect yourself from… that other people are being dicks about it, does not excuse you or me or anyone else to also be a dick about it.
I think all the hating on vegans (or breatharians, for that matter) is product of a guilty conscience. If I am OK with what I put into my body, it will be impossible to feel shamed by the choices other people make about what they put in theirs.
Realistically I think the answer is twofold.
Humans possess all the needed biological digestive processes to consume both plants and meat. You have incisors and canines to chew meat and a liver and gallbladder to break it down. Given a local geographic area could a vegan source all of their nutritional needs? As someone living in a first world country, I have the ability to source food from practically anywhere on the planet. Without that could I grow a varied enough selection of food to not become malnourished? Because animals like chickens and goats don’t need a lot of fancy feed to produce milk, cheese, and eggs.
Tribalism counts for less due to the politics of the left and there’s less value on tradition for tradition’s sake so you see more “sacred cows” get called out. It’s still human nature though and honestly I’m kind of tired of people trying to load it as some kind of “fault” in progressive people that they are a diverse group that often has to compromise rather than a group that derives power from forming a clearly defined substitute identity pre-fab with moral values for followers. Honestly if you’re getting your identity from politics-- for the love of God stop. Otherwise “why is the political faction that demands you comply with specific views, morals, lifestyles, values, etc. more unified, more tribal, and less likely to question each other than the more diverse group that shuns these prescriptive unilateral values” is kind of a question that ought to answer itself.
We also have the intellectual capacity to be able to make informed choices, not just based on our biology or nutritional needs or our tastes, but on the social consequences of those choices. None of this is driven solely by our baser needs, but by our social ones, too.
And those choices have social consequences, too, not just environmental, but on the welfare of other human beings (pushing people into monocultures and forcing them to move away from subsistence to for profit agricultural farming.
This isn’t just about our own needs, but the health and welfare of the entire planet. Not saying that going vegan is the correct answer (especially if that veganism is based on the transport of food from far away that impacts the welfare of farmers there), just saying that we need to think about this in larger terms than what we want or need. What we do in life has consequences, in some cases, global ones. That’s worth thinking about.
I’ll probably get lost amongst the snark here but –
This is the SECOND famous vegan youtuber in like 2 months who’s gone to fish and eggs after a “water fast” and been blasted by ‘the community’ - The first person’s story is HERE and is very similar to this current one.
Body felt off - various ill symptoms
(didn’t go to doctor)
Changed vegan diet up a bit - still had ill symptoms
(didn’t go to doctor)
Went on 25-35 day “water fast” - had more severe ill symptoms (really?)
(didn’t go to doctor)
Added eggs and fish to diet - Got yelled at and disowned by community
(nobody suggests going to the doctor)
The end
I have nothing of real note to add - just that the stories are weirdly+virtually identical – and I didn’t know part of veganism involved not going to the friggen doctor when ill symptoms persist.
ETA: Seems the most recent youtuber did go to the doctor after things weren’t somehow fixed by the 25-day water fast (go figure) - but kept it secret for some reason.
I think in the modern industrialized world we forget that malnutrition is still a real thing. I read a first person account of a guy in the UK who was trying to save some money and calculated the least he could spend on food, and after only a month of eating mainly bread he developed symptoms. Scurvy can appear very quickly and be very severe, so unlike other deficiencies he just couldn’t ignore it for weeks.
I’m simply pointing out that from a biological perspective humans evolved to be omnivores. More than likely for the ecological reasons that it is far easier to obtain the protein and other vitamins we need from a meat source than local vegetation. I’m not saying it is impossible to be vegan, but I wouldn’t say that it is the natural preferred state either. No more so than someone eating keto and only have a few grams of carbs a day.
That’s fair to look at it from that perspective, but I was more addressing the concept of being a local vegan if you will. Quinoa is a great example. It has protein and amino acids, but the vast majority of it comes from South America. That’s not a grain you are likely to get from your local farmers market.
?!? why are you mixing vegans with breatharians here?!? breatharians are not only just plain stupid, but also a danger to themselves and others. for that matter.
?!? why are you mixing vegans with breatharians here?!? breatharians are not only just plain stupid, but also a danger to themselves and others. for that matter.