Anyone who still cannot understand this is trying very, very hard not to understand this.
Besides, the thing that made Black Panther distinct wasn’t that he had dark skin. It was that he was dressed like a panther. I’ve seen hundreds of dark-skinned kids dress up like Batman or Superman or Spider-Man for Halloween, and not one who put on white face makeup to do so.
I’d always thought of blackface as a fairly specific thing, where those involved were caricaturing black people, like this:
But some of these images don’t actually look like they are meant to mock anyone.
I’m asking this in earnest: Is every instance of a white person wearing makeup to make themselves look black an instance of “blackface”, or is blackface something more specific?
That reminds me of the people who unironically (and mind-numbingly incorrectly) called this “whiteface”:
(There’s absolutely nothing racist about this halloween costume.)
It’s not the character, it’s making basic skin color some kind of grotesque prop, when that doesn’t have anything to do with portraying the character…
Yes, it is.
Technically not all blackface is explicitly Minstrel, but the two are so inexorably tied by a century and a half of racist caricature that there’s really no way to do the former without invoking the latter. So just don’t.
I’m sure there are scholars who study this who have technical jargon that I am misusing when I talk about blackface. That’s probably why I’ve seen a lot of coverage saying, “face darkening makeup.” But honestly, a smart person won’t say “niggardly” even though the word has absolutely nothing to do with the racial slur. Nothing of value is being lost by just not doing it.
There’s a more important question you should ask yourself, before having this kind of discussion:
Are you asking because you want to know what bothers black people so you don’t unintentionally bother people, or, are you asking because you want to be able to tell a black person they’re wrong about what bothers them, should the situation arise?
And that “why” seems to be “just because”. The association between cosplay and the old “blackface” used to mock black people is tenous at best. Wouldn’t it make more sense for black people to love that white kids nowadays can have black people as heroes?
You do that all the time. Just walking around as a black person in some white neighborhoods will hurt people’s feelings. A woman walking around without covering her hair will insult some traditional muslims. In Sweden there was a politician who was very insulted when a muslim woman declined to shake his hand, causing a rather polarized debate who was right. To make your rule work you must have a hidden assumption that only some hurt feelings count.
By itself it doesn’t matter to me if you are allowed to paint your face black or not, but the idea that any group can demand that you stop doing anything because they claim it is hurtful to them without any rational reason is dangerous. Demanding that politicians resign is a pretty serious step. Remember David Howard’s use of “niggardly” that forced him to resign even if it is a totally non racist word? Someone got hurt…
For all of thise who keep loudly wondering what does it all mean? and what are the rules?, may I make some suggestions.
https://twitter.com/mishellbaker/status/1173278138211565568
https://twitter.com/mishellbaker/status/1173279358435258373
https://twitter.com/mishellbaker/status/1173279786203926528
https://twitter.com/mishellbaker/status/1173280325574651904
In other words
People are telling you, and you are more interested in talking than listening and thinking about what you are hearing.
As long as willful ignorance and general obtuseness is your jam, sure.
I really have no idea, 171 posts into the second discussion of this topic, how you come to that conclusion. It boggles the mind. The only explanation I can come up with for how you could have arrived at that is:
If you are wondering what happened with that first set of links, the author in question had to protect her account.
On account of being harrassed by people who didn’t like being told to listen to black people without JAQing off.
I didn’t confuse them, but when I first saw T3 I thought “that guy really reminds me of Siddig from DS9.” People can have strong resemblances or just share ineffable vibes & mannerisms while having nothing ethnically in common. Like Siddig and Callis have a similar build and facial structure as well as voice & manner that can come across much stronger on screen than gradations in skin tone.
I didn’t give a rule. I pointed out that it is your choice whether to do things that you know will offend and hurt other people. If someone else is offended by you breathing and you decide, “fuck them” I’m on your side. If someone is offended by you wearing blackface and you decide, “fuck them” then I’m wondering what the hell was so important about you wearing blackface.
You are ignoring that we haggle these things out in our culture collectively. I am pretty sure based on the fact that you didn’t address it that you don’t disagree that you ought not use racial slurs. If you understand that, you can understand this. You gave an example of a divisive debate in Sweden caused by a muslim woman refusing to shake a politician’s hand. The divisive debate is a sign that there was an actual clash of society’s values there that needed further working out. I wish people didn’t see that as an opportunity to “win” or score points, that’s an ugly side effect. But I’m guessing there was a real core of misunderstanding or clash of values there.
But this blackface question isn’t on the edge of anything. People are appalled. It is akin to using racial slurs. Turning it into a philosophy 101 discussion isn’t helpful.
Of course, that’s a good point. I wouldn’t recommend to anyone that they wear black makeup on their face, or use that particular word.
I don’t really like Justin Trudeau, but I don’t feel like it was in the same spirit as actual blackface, if that makes any sense. I’ve seen collage kids in what I would call blackface and it is definitely intended to cause harm, and mock black people but I didn’t get the sense that JT intended that.
Either way, I get why people are sensitive to it, and I think it’s good he apologized.
Another example, that isn’t blackface, that was also offensive, even in 1985:
On the casting of the white actor Joel Grey, who went through four and a half hours of make-up everyday to look like an elderly Korean, producer Larry Spiegel claimed “We assumed, of course, that we would be using an oriental actor. We couldn`t find one and then I thought of Grey.”[4] This casting was highly controversial.[5]
The movie sucked on its own demerits, but Joel Gray as an elderly Korean martial artist was truly cringeworthy.
And this (which, for the people who don’t “get” stuff is only really okay because it’s making fun of racists and the actual concept of blackface and whiteface, not from the POV of a white racist.):
Another note: This skit aired many, many, many years before Trudeau messed up. People knew this wasn’t cool to do generally.
Like you don’t think Trudeau has a heart full of hate for people with dark skin? Yeah, I very few people genuinely think that (and that Trudeau isn’t losing any votes because they weren’t voting for Trudeau anyway), which is a big part of why I initially thought this might blow over (not that I endorsed that, it was just my read. Since it’s become apparent this might have happened often).
The most damaging political scandals are the ones that reinforce what we already think about someone. The real political damage of this is that we all know in our hearts that Trudeau is a spoiled idiot who doesn’t understand consequence of actions and who doesn’t know what it’s like to live non-rich. People “defending” Trudeau by saying this was a youthful mistake (made at age 30 in 2001, after being made many times earlier and not learning from it) are feeding into the politically damaging part of the narrative because they think racism is something people will never accept (despite the fact we vote in racist politicians at least every other election).
I was genuinely wondering if we don’t differentiate the two. I think it’s worth considering someone’s intentions in cases like this, but I also understand that you can cause harm unintentionally, and that you should still apologize when that’s the case.
In my mind, actual blackface is mean-spirited, and a fairly specific thing. Calling something blackface says more to me than someone was wearing dark makeup, if that makes sense. I just wasn’t sure if the media was exaggerating, or if we simply don’t differentiate anymore.
If a white person wearing dark makeup bothers people, that is very relevant and we need to be more sensitive to that.
Holy muthafuckin fucksocks, seriously though.
This shit isn’t rocket science.
People don’t fucking get to “choose” what’s psychologically and emotionally painful to them; that’s not how the fuck human beings work.
And since the obvious clearly needs to be reiterated yet again:
POC OF ARE FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS WITH AGENCY.
