Virginia mayor says Japanese American concentration camps were a good idea. George Takei has something the say about that

boing
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I do not think he is approving or disapproving of it. And in this case I think you are reading into the letter your interpretation of what he is implying. The “implication” you state is clear…is in fact NOT clear.

I believe he is comparing the difficulty in the decision he has made to the difficulty that Roosevelt faced in his decision.
“I’m reminded that Franklin D. Roosevelt felt compelled” is not a statement of support to the act, but an empathy to the weight of the decision. And I will reiterate…the Mayor of this town is not suggesting an internment camp for Syrian Refugees, just that he will not allow his town to accept them.

I am not defending the decision, because I do think it’s the course of action. But we should be critical of the choice, not some perceived racial bias or prejudice. This mayor isn’t saying lock up all middle eastern descent peoples, he isn’t issuing any statements regarding muslims.

this is the only disappointing thing to me here at BB. These forums and the bloggers for BB act in a very similar knee jerk reaction as the tools at Fox. Our side is supposed to be better than that. We are supposed to be critical, even of ourselves; and honest and forthright about the issues.

This REMINDS ME that the issue is a human condition, and most likely an American cultural one. Political affiliations be damned.

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We don’t need to agonize ourselves twisting the words of this man into the best possible meaning while ignoring what they plainly say. He said FDR was “compelled” to put people in internment camps, as in it was his only choice. If you doubt that he meant it was the right thing to do, here you go:

Asked about it Wednesday afternoon, Bowers called himself a student of Roosevelt and stood by his position.
“I understand how difficult a decision he made, but in the light of what was going on at the time he made the right decision,” Bowers said.

Then you go on to say that even if he thought it was the right call, that doesn’t mean he’s calling for it now. I thought it was the right idea to take an advil the last time I had a headache, and while that doesn’t strictly mean I think it’s a good idea to take one for the headache that this idiocy is giving me, I think it’s safe to says that there is at least a suggestion there.

If he didn’t want to be thought of as the guy who said that American internment camps were a good idea, maybe he shouldn’t have been the guy who said that American internment camps were a good idea. I certainly don’t owe it to him now to think the best of his intentions.

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I see this and wonder why you posted the thought in the first place. Put your ideas down, and then discuss/defend them–you’re already setting expectations of defensiveness, as well as telling people who disagree with that post that their thought isn’t worthy in the first place. To me, “yadda yadda” used in this context implies that the rabbling hordes can blather their nonsense now that you’ve had your say and it’s absolutely correct, [mic drop].

I recently had a coworker start an aggressive, confrontational message to me with the line, “I know this is a terrible way to begin conflict resolution, but…”, and that person was entirely correct up to that point. It was a terrible way to begin, and it only got worse from there.

He’s not comparing, he’s defending it as a suitable response taken then that could be taken now, and he’d be okay with that decision. And as a mayor he should be aware of the history of that episode and how it’s almost the American gold standard for what not to do in times of crisis.

As for the second part of that thought, that ISIS poses an existential threat to America, it’s not even remotely true. Might they attack a theater, or a coffee shop, and kill undefended people? Yes. Will they achieve any sort of national status in their utterly misguided attempts to set up a caliphate? No. They’re operating at the extremely chaotic and ungoverned edges of society, in the midst of civil wars and small cities. They’re cowardly, murderous, and entirely misguided, and most of them will likely die gruesome deaths, pointless deaths.

It’s a possibility that someone could enter a western nation under the guise of being a refugee. A distinct possibility? That’s mealymouth speak for “any one of these refugees could be terrorists”. Well, yes, there could be terrorists just like there could be aliens hovering over my house right now. The leader of ISIS could be soul-kissing his Huckabee-look-a-like male prostitute lover right now, too, but hypotheticals are fun that way.

Something like 1 in ~7,000 people a year die in vehicle accidents, 1 in ~88,000 will die by drowning, and if a 9/11 ‘level’ terrorist attack occurred every year, the likelihood of dying in such an attack would be about 1 in 100,000, but since those attacks DON’T happen, the odds are around 1 in 20,000,000. So, no, it’s not a legitimate fear, it’s utterly unfounded.

That said, I surf, and I’m scared of being attacked by a shark even though the odds are very much in my favor. Americans can be scared, but the elected leaders who are supposed to be the smart people in the room guiding the nation forward? Those leaders who are now rushing to be the first to howl about Syrian refugees and how they’re gonna come and take our guns and white women and bomb all the sweatervest factories and put “I :heart: Osama bin Livin” on a renamed Star-Islam-bucks coffee cups? They are pandering, fearmongering, cowards.

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I can’t see how people might be confused into thinking that you agree with him. Where would they get that idea from?

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So so so much this. I would argue if they were targeting us for this kind of attack why the hell hasn’t it happened yet? Because getting a hold of the guns and some rental cars would be so much easier in 'Murrica compared to France. It hasn’t happened. It may happen but I face bigger risks almost every day taking my big ass scooter to work, or just plain walking to get groceries by crossing the street. There are too many other things that are way more likely to kill me to worry about terrorists.

Turning away people fleeing a war zone because there .01% of them MAY be a terrorist is just fucking cowardly on so many levels.

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I think that the American government should start interning white men because they might be the next Timothy McVeigh.

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Its “funny” to me that the “poisoned M&M argument” can be used by white men justifying keeping out refugees but when women use it in relation to sex assaults and being cautious around men… we get shouted down and yelled at that our argument is false/bad/untrue. “Funny” that…

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And, au natural, I’ve seen some NRA types on Teh Twitterz carping about how we need stronger laws to prevent terrorists from purchasing weapons in 'merica. JFC, I don’t even know where to go with that level of stupid/cognitive dissonance.

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a threat from an enemy is a threat from an enemy. its acceptable to compare an apple to an apple.

But me agreeing with that comparison doesn’t mean I like apples.

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Sure, but to use a very strained and likely flawed analogy, you don’t throw the local 10 year old bully in jail cause he talks a big game.

I think the general sentiment is tracking people or interning them based on race or religion is always a bad idea. FDR was a hoopy frood, but he fucked that one up big time.

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TO THE LIST!!

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I am disappointed I haven’t made the list yet.

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This is a little baffling. There was no threat from the interned Japanese Americans, and there is no threat from the refugees*. No one should have been interned, we should be taking in as many refugees as we can (not just from Syria but from other places too). I suppose that it kind of an apples to apples comparison. David Bowers thinks internment was right (he said so in a news interview) and he thinks turning away refugees is right. Your painful parsing of his letter to make a little wiggle room to think that maybe he wasn’t saying internment was a good idea didn’t seem like it could serve any purpose other than defending him. And it serves no purpose in a world where we can rapidly get confirmation that he does in fact mean the things that you are saying he might not mean.

You did in fact tell us that it was very important (“facts are important”) to make sure we gave this asshole the benefit of every shadow of a doubt. Why? Why is that important?

* There is some level of threat from everyone. There is no credible reason to think they were/are more threatening than white, christian males who were born in the USA.

What’s even funnier is that 1 in 10 M&Ms being poison is a pretty fucking good reason to never eat another M&M, while one in a million M&Ms being poison is a questionable one.

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Especially if you had a scenario in which health inspectors spent 18 months to a year individually evaluating each M&M before allowing it into the bowl. (Of course then you’d just have the problem of stale candy).

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The comparison is a threat from terrorism today as from imperial japan then. And I did state internment was wrong because japanese-american citizens were NOT imperial japanese citizens. Just as I do not think Syrian refugees are terrorists.

sigh Again, I do not think the guy is right. My issue is the headline and positioning of the story here is not right either! I can’t change the moron mayor. He will think what he thinks.But the bloggers I read, I would hope as one of their readers would listen to my voice when it says “Hey…less knee jerk click bait headlines please” Because when I read posts like this. I think of Jon Stewart on Crossfire pleading…“Stop! You are the ones who are supposed to be helping and you’re part of the problem”

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Let’s look at your ‘comparison’.

So in WWII, there was an easily defined (in fact, self-identified) enemy, the Empire of Japan. Simple.

During that conflict, the US gov’t (and the Canadian gov’t; Canada fucked this up just as badly) interned people en masse on the basis of their physical, and (presumed) cultural resemblance to those fighting on behalf of the Empire.

In that instance there was a resemblance, but I have never, ever heard any remotely good explanation of how that resemblance justified depriving the internees of their freedom and property, temporarily or otherwise.

In this situation, there’s even less of a resemblance. Certainly some of the refugees and some members of IS come from the same places and (presumably) share a common heritage. But how is that relevant? The US might as well block entrance to the French and Belgians since most of the criminals involved in the Paris attacks were from France and Belgium.

This fuckwit’s argument–which, you must admit, you’ve spent a lot of time arguing is legitimate for a person who disagrees with it–effectively reduces to some kind of guilt-by-ethno-geographic-association. It’s ludicrous.

And you know, typing that out shows me that you’re right: your comparison is apples-to-apples after all. There was no reason to intern Japanese Americans and Canadians in WWI, and there’s no reason to intern Syrian refugees now. Well done.

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But the headline is “Virgina mayor says Japanesse American concentration camps were a good idea” and HE DOES. He said so himself. I am not arguing that you are racist or that you think refusing refugees is a good idea. I am saying the point you came here to make is just plain wrong. You are doing what you are telling other people not to do - being a reactionary, looking at a headline and saying, “Ugh, that headline” without even checking if the headline is factually correct.

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Do M&M’s get stale, really?

But yeah - there was a fantastic post on Facebook (of all places) that I saw the other day… (searching… found it) It goes over the process of how refugees are selected by the Canadian government. I mean, I suppose it’s theoretically possible that an ISIS terrorist or two could sneak in that way, but the odds are pretty slim. Seems like it would be MUCH easier to just try to sneak in using one of the other myriad ways that people sneak into countries.

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It takes between 18 months and 2 years to go through the vetting process for a refugee visa to the United States. Syrians entering the country this way have been more thoroughly scrutinized than almost anyone else who crosses our borders. Only around 2,000 Syrians have made it in this way since the beginning of the civil war.

Meanwhile MILLIONS of people enter the U.S. every year as tourists with no background check whatsoever via the visa waiver program. The terrorists who attacked Paris could have easily entered the United States this way since they had French and Belgian passports.

I’m not sure why so many are obsessing over the tiny trickle of highly-scrutinized people entering the country as refugees and not the huge flow of un-scrutinized people entering as tourists, but I have a hunch that it may have something to do with how many American businesses depend on money from tourism.

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