Watch: AMAZING slam poem about policing women's speech habits

boing
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Thanks very much for this :slight_smile:

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You just described solipsism. She must be exaggerating because you haven’t had the same experience as her and therefore her stated experience must be inaccurate or wrong. Only your perception and experience can be the correct, real one.

Just because you perceive society differently or have had a different experience than her, it doesn’t make her experience invalid.

It’s perfectly fair to say, “I haven’t had the same experience as her.” It’s shortsighted and egocentric to pretend like she must be wrong because your experience differs.

Somebody doesn’t have to be “right” all the time, you know.

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So the #NotAllMen gambit?

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I don’t think she’s exaggerating because “that could never ever happen.” Obviously it can and does happen. I think she’s exaggerating because if the behavior she’s observing were prevalent and accepted enough to warrant a slam-poetic broadside at Old White Men and their Western Civilization then yeah, I would expect to have noticed instances of that.

“Why is it always snowing everywhere?”
“It’s not snowing here. It’s never snowed here. And I’ve been where you are now during the summer, it wasn’t snowing then either.”
“HOW DARE YOU INVALIDATE MY EXPERIENCE”

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#AlmostNoMenAtAll, but you were close! Sort of. Not really. You got the punctuation right, so that’s something.

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And since you have not seen it yourself, she is just being dramatic there on stage, and you’re doing a what? a public service?

Best way to not learn new things is accuse anyone with a different experience of an agenda. Hermetic opinion achieved!

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Is that a distinction with a difference? Are you sure your numbers are reliable?

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Let’s ask Occam: What’s more likely?

That strange old men are constantly interrupting conversations with unsolicited oratorical advice, and I have never once seen this happen despite being a participant in or witness to tens of thousands of conversations, and I have never before heard of this happening to anyone, despite knowing and speaking to a countless number of people?

Or that a few strange old men occasionally do this, are ignored or reprimanded for their grossly maladroit behavior, and an author and stage performer exaggerates the impact and significance for dramatic effect in the course of a dramatic stage performance?

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I think I agree with you. I too think that her experience is valid, but I would not generalize it to all people and in particular to “old white men”. I have seen plenty of “old xxx people” that might not enjoy her speech as well.

“Old white men” seems like a safe thing to get mad at these days without needing any critical thinking or dialog to back that up.

I could listen to her “poem” and see the same reaction with anyone over the age of 45. It’s not “old white men”, it’s a generational gap. She is blinded by her own bias to miss that.

Again, this is not an argument of whether or not she feels this - or even if this is valid for her to feel it. I am sure she does and good for her. Great poem, go for yours!

I happen to disagree with the cause and I see that she is too inexperienced and young to see that. With greater age and wisdom, she might reflect differently.

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OTOH, I’m waiting for certain members of the BB cabal to drop in with their soda-slurping GIFs and for the bans to happen shortly after.

Though I will agree with them on one point: it’s amazing how threads about feminists tend to fill up with us dudes arguing with them. I would remind them that having a bunch of dudes disagreeing with a member of an oppressed class does not make either group automatically right or wrong, though in her defense on one part of it, I heard commentary on NPR about how they analysed the speech patterns of their commentators after getting complaints about several women using too much vocal fry. Their verdict was that both young men and young women on NPR used vocal fry…but they weren’t getting nearly as many complaints about the men.

I tend to agree with the people bringing up the generational gap, though, and figure that generalizing it as “old white men” is probably pandering to the crowd and current groupthink.

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More with the solipsism. You’re giving all weight to your own experience. That’s fine for arguing what you have experienced or perceived. But you’re taking your experience and applying it to others as if they have experienced the same and haven’t experienced anything you haven’t experienced or witnessed. You have a lot of faith in your ability to perceive what goes on around you in addition to speculating on what goes on when you’re not around.

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“It’s always snowing everywhere” is flatly contradicted by my experience. Nobody else’s experience can make the statement true.

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And she never said anything close to that absurd absolutism, so you’re fighting a strawman.

She said old white men interrupt and correct and unfairly criticize her for not speaking like they do. She didn’t say that it happens to you. She didn’t say it happens in the conversations that you participate in. You’re taking her experience personally, finding that you can’t empathize or relate to it, and asserting that she must be mistaken.

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I could have a superpower, being able to have a universal consciousness of the experiences of all women across the country wouldn’t be the one I’d pick. If I had that superpower I might use it for some greater good than criticizing a poem.

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I have found that there is a certain professional speech pattern that is expected, regardless of gender, in professional situations. But to require it in social situations, f.ex. on the internet, seems incredibly invasive.

By the by, I’ve noticed similar comments relating to previous comment history or lack thereof before. Why does it matter so much? Won’t raising that as an issue derail the conversation from the actual subject matter? Or at the very least, deny the possibility of personal change?

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It’s pretty clear that she’s asserting some truth larger than her own personal experience. She doesn’t say Some guy actually said this to me, can you believe that shit? She says Old men do this all the time, amirite?

Unless I discover that all my fellow old men are concertedly going to great lengths to keep that secret from me, I’m going to stick with my position of No we do not do that all the time.

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No, that’s not at all clear. The audience seems to respond as though they also have had her experience, but she’s relating her experience and not speaking universally.

Maybe have another listen.

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Then what are we arguing about? If “policing women’s speech habits” isn’t a real issue beyond “it happened once to this woman, who wrote this poem about it,” then who gives a shit?

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