Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2020/02/28/watch-playboy-founder-hugh-hef.html
…
8 Likes
Also, those old Dick Cavett interviews are great. They are available on streaming services.
I watched another cringe worthy one recently with David Bowie (very high on coke). It was painful. These interviews are a wealth of history.
However, most of them are ‘cringe worthy’ by today’s standards of polished responses and canned questions.
EDIT: The Tom Snyder interviews are good for that time period. There’s one with Tom Snyder and Ayn Rand that’s cringe worthy… .
5 Likes
I don’t know Sally Kempton’s work but Brownmiller went on to write deep & important books & articles. It’s wonderful to see her so young, dynamic & assertive against the patronising air of “Maybe we can find out what the women are all upset about.” These men really cannot see their own privilege & prejudice even as they feel all liberal for “giving the ladies a chance to speak.”
9 Likes
If this is representative, TV was better then. Sexism was obviously worse, but the people are much more genuinely expressing their opinions. Today it is mostly just rehearsed talking points from the guests and a host prodding for quick punchy antagonism rather than dialogue. Although Cavett made me cringe more than Hefner (expected more), this is a good job of a group interview with real disagreement
8 Likes
I’ve little to say about Hefner or Brownmiller, though I’m more familiar with the former’s work.
Oddly enough, BB patron saint Robert Anton Wilson was an editor for Hef way back when. From his essay, “How to Read,” I first learned of Susan Brownmiller–not a good impression.
“To ascribe predicates to a people is always dangerous.” Nietzsche, unpublished note, 1873.
Scrutinize the following propositions:
- “Usury is a crime committed by all Jews against all Aryans.” –A. Hitler
- “[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.” –S. Brownmiller [italics in the original]
To what extent do these propositions ascribe predicates to groups? To what extent do they represent “sleep,” which ignores (does not perceive) e.g., the existential differences between Jew1 Jew2, etc, man1 man2, etc.?"
This mind-boggling stereotype leaps to mind any time I hear her name.
Many feminists have worked to make this world a better place.
I’m not sure she was one of them?
2 Likes
Agreed. I was surprised to see a representation of so many reasons why progress has been very slow in such a short segment. The confusion, condescension, and clueless reactions from members of both sexes were all on display. Gotta give Hefner points for his comments about sexism not being analogous to racism, though. It’s too bad some members of the movement never figured that out.
3 Likes
OK. The Hitler quote unquestionably was intended to mean that every Jew commits usury. The Brownmiller quote unquestionably was not intended to mean every man commits rape. Its from a passage describing how rape is unique to humans among primates and has a long history of being the means for enforcing male dominance. I think you severly missed her point
11 Likes
Ok. We can agree to disagree.
Read literally, it says that all men (including me) consciously keep all women in a state of fear.
That would take a lot of work. I don’t think most men are up to it. I’m certainly not.
Groupthink destroys the best of intentions and belies laziness in thinking.
6 Likes
A view of HH in a suit rather than in his ‘trademark’ silk pjs and robe. Rare.
2 Likes
You added the word “consciously,” which detracts a lot from the word “literally.”
13 Likes
I love these old Dick Cavett shows. Alec Baldwin did a great interview with him on “Here’s the Thing”. This one’s a gem too.
Thanks Mark!
1 Like
And that’s how Feminists duped their followers into conducting an international campaign of horror that ultimately rounded up every man they could find into concentration camps and murdered them by the millions. I still get chills reading the diaries of Dan Frank, who famously hid with his bros in a secret man-cave for two years before ultimately being discovered by the Feminazis.
26 Likes
Um, I thought the “P-word” was banned on this site? Or is it let bygones be bygones now?
Sadly for other primates, that’s not entirely accurate. (Not that it takes away from her larger point)
As described in his excellent book A Primate’s Memoir Robert Sapolsky spent years following around a group of baboons, studying their social interactions and taking regular blood samples to measure stress hormones. He described one disturbing account of a male who, fresh off of an angry encounter with another male, then went and attacked a female, forcing himself upon her when she clearly wasn’t physically or mentally prepared to mate, injuring her in the process. (With female baboons there are visible physical changes present around mating time). Despite biologists generally avoiding the use of the term for non-humans, he felt that “rape” was the only appropriate word for what he saw. And in that case it was clearly about male anger and asserting control over others, not procreation.
So yeah, other primates can be just like us, in all the wrong ways.
6 Likes
So yeah, other primates can be just like us, in all the wrong ways
they just made their living in monkiing us. it’s what they thought at the middle age about such disgusting animal…archi jealous they are that’s all…it’s starring uz in our face
TV was better then. Sexism was obviously worse, but the people are much more genuinely expressing their opinions
agree…it’s so obvious our opinions are not that much good we even want to get one that give us better image…zen at the same time the show become worst
I’m pretty sure Grace Slick dropped an f-bomb which was why the audio cuts out when she is talking. I read about this just now a little, out of curiosity, and she apparently famously did in this episode, but I think she must have done it first in a song as I only saw articles mention it as if it occurred during a performance. So maybe the 2nd (or 3rd, or…?) f-bomb on live TV occurred when Grace Slick was trolling a feminist. Kind of interesting, as I always assumed she was a feminist based on interviews I read with her in the '90s, but maybe it required a few more years in the music industry. I wonder if 5-10 years down the line she cringed. Thanks to the wonders of the social media era www, now everyone can cringe at their past selves
I have known women who did nude shoots and at the time I was like “…uh, will you own the IP?” and they were convinced they did, only to find out later they didn’t. Double bind there because any advice would have been overbearing on my part, but it turns out if you don’t own the IP you don’t own the “means of production” so to speak and some random rich dude will. So 2nd wave is sorta right, in some ways, but 3rd wave is also right since they emphasize self-autonomy over blanket ideology. But it seems like capitalism and law don’t care about enthusiasm and self-discovery, just $, and money is always power. I’ve never thought about this before, but I suppose in a sense 2nd wave was maybe more tightly coupled to Marxism. Some modern feminists are anti sex work still though, which seems more in the spirit of the views of the two women in the interview. So perhaps Grace was annoyed with the notion that she wasn’t in control of her own decisions when it comes the the money game or something along those lines.
1 Like
Sorry again, very inicorrect about rape amonst apes in “Demonic Males” apes and the origins of human violence by Richard Wrangham and Dale Peterson it is stated that “in 1989 researcher Craig Palmer surveyed the literature for rape among mammels he found rape to be routine among only two species of non-human animals orangutans and elephant seals” later in the passage it states “Jane Goodal has described rape among Gombe Chimpanzees and attempted rape has been noted among captive gorrilas and wild howler monkeys”. The RAW quote about Brownmiller speaks for itself, not a lot of wriggle room there.
So what’s the point of these persnickety corrections? Since rape happens among human animals and other animals, wimmens should give up trying to prevent it? Or…?
8 Likes
