Based on what? Is all the military gear slowing them down and decreasing their situational awareness?
if the students of Ohio State have a problem with public destruction, perhaps addressing and fining the school would be a good step in the right direction. Certainly, using chemical weapons on celebrants isn’t reasonable.
Raita - I definitely agree with your comment about the unnecessary use of police force, but I do want to point out that in the same breath you claimed that “few stupid people set dumpsters on fire” when addressing the sports fans while condemning the whole police department for using force, when only a few police used pepper spray.
Police have an incredibly poisonous culture. They see horrible things all day, everyday, between long stretches of monotony (much like soldiers the military). Then when something goes wrong (intentionally or accidentally) involving a couple of Officers, the whole force is put under the microscope and dragged over the coals. Suddenly, a situation that could have been easily discerned becomes a quagmire of “Us VS Them” mentality. That frame of mind starts to corrupt every facet of the Officers thinking while on the job until it settles on treating the entire public as being the enemy.
There are good cops and bad, just like their are good sports fans and bad (trust me, I grew up in Philly. I saw many, many bad sports fans). We have to figure out a way to discuss these situations without getting so defensive, otherwise everyone hunkers down, digs in, and no progress will be made.
Could the Police have handled the situation better? Absolutely, there was no reason for police to roll up in armored vehicles, decked out in fatigues and face/gas masks that hide their identity. Public servants should operate on the same laws the general public do. Protesters can’t wear masks to hide their identity, why should police be able to cover their face and hide their badges?
Could the few sports fans not have gotten so drunk they thought a good way to celebrate their teams win was pyromania? Sure.
This entire situation is about respect; the drunk sports fans with a history of not respecting basic decency, continuing that trend, and the Police not respecting or caring about basic human rights.
Everyone was wrong, but then again hindsight is 20/20.
I’m pretty sure having cake is in fact a prerequisite for eating it, but maybe you could explain how someone is supposed to eat cake without first being in possession of cake?
But in seriousness, if you think this was a justifiable use of force, lets just say I’m glad your voice is likely to be drowned out in the shouts of outrage over this.
read further down the page…
**Edit, my comment was more directed at the media focusing on the police response, rather than a bunch of people acting like assholes.
I completely disagree with this “a few bad apples” idea, because there should NOT be such “bad apples” to begin with. Police hold so much power that each and every one of them should be held to a higher standard than regular sports fans. You say there are good cops and bad cops just like there are good and bad sports fans, but those can’t be compared on any level. American police forces encourage such violent behavior with their bad, bad training. The fault is not on a few bad apple, it’s on the whole rotten system.
See my reply in this another thread about police violence: The cops who shot a homeless man have been charged with murder - #17 by Raita
I went to Ohio State and, believe me, the crowds can get out of control. It’s not unusual to see merchants boarding-up their windows prior to the annual OSU/Michigan game. I’ve seen cars turned over and set on fire to “celebrate” victory. Whoever suggested that the cops should hand out tickets instead of exercising crowd control has probably never been in a riot. It doesn’t work that way, not during OSU game days. What gets me is that in France this week we saw a million people in the streets who had every reason to be charged with emotion, but I didn’t hear of a single store being looted or building set on fire. Bravo, France.
did you completely overlook this whole section of my post because it was convenient, or you just feel like fighting?
"Police have an incredibly poisonous culture. They see horrible things all day, everyday, between long stretches of monotony (much like soldiers the military). Then when something goes wrong (intentionally or accidentally) involving a couple of Officers, the whole force is put under the microscope and dragged over the coals. Suddenly, a situation that could have been easily discerned becomes a quagmire of “Us VS Them” mentality. That frame of mind starts to corrupt every facet of the Officers thinking while on the job until it settles on treating the entire public as being the enemy."
At this point I would just be happy with the police being held to the same standard as the general public. Your dream of 0 bad apples is completely impossible. There are bad teachers, students, doctors, patients, plumbers, poopers, etc until the end of time. There is no 100% anything in real life, just balance.
Where in the video does it show anyone setting something on fire? I didn’t even see any violence or property damage on the part of the crowd.
That was out of character for France, mind, but given the circumstances…
I didn’t ignore that part of your post and I am not looking for a fight. I completey agree with the part you highlighted, that’s why I didin’t respond to it.
But I also was not saying that it’s possible to have no bad apples at all, just that we shouldn’t just accept it as a normal and we should have much higher standards for police. Every case of police violence or misconduct should be taken seriously; much more seriously than some sports fan acting like idiots. That was my point. In Finland, this kind of thing would not happen and if it did, the officer would be immediately fired. And no one would certainly be saying “oh, well there are bad cops and good cops”, as if it’s normal for cops to act like this.
It will probably take a lot more white, middle class party people to experience police brutality until they realize, as a class, what the game is.
Hey look, I just happen to have an opinion that seems to have been formed to aggravate the most amount of people possible. It’s a coincidence!
People who don’t like things catching fire willy-nilly. This is a large demographic. The tactics employed may not have been good or optimal and we can debate that but you can’t just let crowds set fires.
I am rarely incorrect when I click on a profile to see if it is new. It almost always is. BBS names I don’t recognize posting to defend the assholes in the article usually means a new poster. Welcome to BB, hope you have more to contribute.
Based on just the evidence presented in the video, the most criminal act I saw was a couple of drunk college kids jumpin on the bumper of a firetruck. Nothing in the video warranted the level of force used, and the level of force was directed at groups rather than individuals engaged in illegal activity. As for the actual crimes which did occur, the police would be smart if they focused directly on those crimes, rather than dispersing a crowd which appears to be mostly harmless.
Oh, I see @davide405 already called out the new arrivals - It’s not elitist thinking at work, but when an apparent outside shows up out of the blue to defend someone who is doing something wrong, well, that used to be called astroturfing? To me, it seems as if you are not a genuine participant here in the BBS. You came along to defend your one little group, and we’re unlikely to ever see you again. There’s certainly nothing wrong with being new, but being new, your best effort is posting likes and replies in support of issues and comments by others, so that when you DO give a controversial opinion, it is as one of us, not as an outsider.
I really do hope that newcomers stick around to contribute their voice and become a part of this community. All sides should be heard.
You might live longer if you cough pony up $27+$10 for your own mask & filter.
And so the civilian/police arms race ratchets up a notch…
So what? That’s the game isn’t it? They have special training and special powers that allow them to enter risk bound situations and resolve them equitably.
But they don’t, they go full monty at the drop of literally anything, a pen, a wallet, a careless word.
Force as a response to any and all risk, and too often a perceived slight, is the definition of policing in the USA today, and the shits are starting to spread it north too. It’s also the definition of bad policing the world over.
I feel your statements are unfair. The video is pretty good quality, and I feel that it was honest, however it doesn’t show the multiple attempts to control this huge crowd, which resisted multiple attempts at general control. I am appalled at the show of force, the chemical weapons, the anonymity afforded by gas masks. I also don’t think it’s fair to judge every police department by the horrors in the news. OSU post game celebrations have a history of violence, the cops tried several tactics to get things under control, and made a drastic move. No one died. Moving on.
We seem to be fight/agreeing with each other… I at no point in this thread defended the police or their actions in this instance. But to assume that there never will be people who undermine the system and abuse the power given to them by the state is ridiculous. Currently US police circle the wagons when they are being criticized, everyone does this to protect themselves, but in that process they end up protecting people who need to be pushed out of a law enforcement position. The US needs to reform the police and their tactics, period. The problem is that it has to happen on a state by state basis since the Feds can’t/won’t stink their hands into that basket of snakes. This change will not come quickly, it will be painful, and many more unarmed POC will be wrongfully killed because an officer was quaking in their boots but their trigger finger was rock steady.
Not in the video but there were tons of pictures http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/01/riot-cops-used-tear-gas-and-pepper-spray-on-students-celebrating-ohio-states-national-championship/
I found the police response to this like to so many things over the top and inappropriate.
a few things stood out to me
one was that the police weren’t on megaphones saying “please back up or we will spray you” or otherwise audibly directing the crowds at any point in any of the videos, they were just casually spraying folks without instruction. numerous times i saw the spray intentionally follow people’s faces who were obviously trying to duck out of the way, that is unnecessary force and assault.
WTF is up with officers with gas masks on horseback and the horses are unmasked, i don’t even… who’s stupid idea was that? That is dangerous, stupid, and cruel. I can imagine it wouldn’t be far fetched for a pepper sprayed horse to bolt through a crowd potentially trampling people. They have very sensitive eyes and sense of smell and the potential to injure people in such situations.
3.what is up with the trend for police to show up in full camouflage military issue gear with combat assault rifles and armored vehicles? against students no less.
