Website documents “Shit People Say To Women Directors”


#1

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Did you ever want to play questions?
#2

These are pretty horrific.

I don’t think the second one you quoted is directly because it’s a woman director. Being seen with an unexplained attractive MoS is a concern for many who are in the public eye and/or have cheated in the past and/or have a partner who reacts badly to such things and/or has friends who gossip/tease.


#3

MoS? Manual of Style?

Member of the Opposite Sex? I think you mean gender, here (since it’s the presentation, not the genetics, that matter here). And that’s a bit heteronormative, too, to specify ‘opposite’.

That being said, heteronormativity and regressive gender stereotypes are kinda the point of the article…

Ignoring all that, I contend that the concerns you illustrate have no bearing on the person being met. It is not this woman director’s fault that this other person is involved with controlling or suspicious people. This other person needs to act in a professional manner and handle their personal control/suspicion problem on personal time.

As always, it’s a matter of respect.


#4

You’re right, its hetronormative. And I agree that I technically meant gender. I apologise for using shorthand in a topic that isn’t about trans* issues. Lazy rather than presumptive…

I also agree that it’s about the speakers friends/partners/self not the director. I never said or implied otherwise.

But they can still express this fact - especially if its to someone they knew and they expected to anticipate this fact.


#5

Well, the quote doesn’t really imply that the person being met needed to do anything differently, or that the comment has any bearing on them. It just implies that there were consequences for the person meeting them, consequences that they also had no control over – being accused of having an affair. So it’s more like: Third party C will cause negative consequences for second party B, if B is seen with A at the hotel bar. Had B had additional information, they would have been able to arrange a meeting with A in such a way that A was still treated with respect, but B also avoids negative consequences from C. So anyway, if you have a jealous partner I guess the solution is to always assume that whomever you are meeting will make them jealous, and plan accordingly, rather than determining in advance whether the person you’re meeting is someone that will make your partner jealous.


#6

I’ve encountered the “I can’t work with someone I want to fuck” situation personally in real life. In my case, it’s less complicated because it involved me turning down a job/promotion because I was too attracted to the supervisor to concentrate on work, and because this attraction was making it hard for me to sustain relationships. I feel like being too attracted to be around someone is a real phenomenon, that people can’t be blamed for. I spent four years in psychotherapy trying to diminish or redirect this attraction and nothing has worked, so I really don’t think this is a sort of problem that can be overcome by force of will. In my case, I’m very happy that I was in the inferior position, as I feel like my feelings of attraction are a form of disability that made me unqualified for that position, and therefore that I didn’t contribute to a sexist workplace. I don’t know what I will do if I ever find myself on the other side of this. Given that the attraction can’t be eliminated, and has a real effect on my ability to perform, it seems the only course of action that is ethical would be to hire both a replacement for myself and the person I’m attracted to, and look for a new job?

Seriously, what is one to do?


#7

There’s a difference between a one-time strong attraction between two people with a power differential in the same work space versus the norm, which is that in a ridiculously large percentage of cases, men in the workplace feel this way about any conventionally attractive women in their workplace.


#8

Ack, my pedantism came across too harsh. Didn’t mean to take you to task or anything, I apply Hanlon’s Razor liberally and just assumed it was shorthand. I was expanding on it a little because I was confused, and a little because I like hearing myself type.

I suppose that the case in question is a much better illustration about the sort of bullshit women directors would have to put up with that male directors wouldn’t. Not a complaint against a specific action, but an observation of an ugly truth. The dude in question’s not really the one at fault, from information given, as in absence of contradictory evidence we can assume he comported himself respectfully during the meeting.


#9

What the hell, movie industry. I haven’t heard language that foul in locker rooms.

Sexism that blatant seems like a slam dunk lawsuit.


#10

But that’s a no-win situation too because even if a woman could prove illegal sexist discrimination in court (very difficult, especially when the other side has an army of high-priced lawyers) she’d likely be torpedoing her career in the process.

If it’s difficult for a woman to get a directing job because other Hollywood types find her “too attractive” or “too much of a control freak” then just imagine how hard it would be once word gets around that she’s “that stuck-up bitch who will sue you at the drop of a hat.”

Most women in the industry suck it up and do their best to deal with the systemic sexism because that’s the only way they can stay in the industry at all.


#11

Wow, so all the “feel good, we’re better than you, progressive liberal” vibes we get from Hollywood is really just a bunch of hypocritical crap?


#12

The idea that Hollywood is a homogeneous block of progressive liberals is basically just a claim that people on the right (i.e. Sarah Palin) like to trot out whenever they want to act victimized. It falls apart on its face when you look at specifics:

"Hollywood is anti-gun!" (As long as you ignore the countless action movies glorifying guns and a number of high-profile gun rights activists like Charlton Heston, Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis etc. etc.)

"Hollywood is shoving the Gay Agenda down America’s throats!" (As long as you forget that virtually every ugly anti-gay stereotype was propagated by Hollywood)

"Hollywood is socialist!" (Please ignore the “black lists” which kept anyone accused of Socialist ties out of Hollywood for decades)

"Hollywood is a tool of the Democratic party!" (Except for all those Hollywood actors who successfully ran for elected office as Republicans—including several mayors, at least three governors and one President)

It goes without saying that the “Hollywood is free of racism and sexism” idea doesn’t really pan out either.


#13

For most subsets of the term “industry”.


#14

Oh okay so if you’re an attractive woman you cannot spend any time professionally with another man unless you have what? Two additional male escorts? Three? Four?


#15

I understand that, but the threat of lawsuits is something that both genders should be aware of. I would have figured that fear of being sued into oblivion would have suppressed the overt sexism and replaced it with the corporate sexism we hear about more often.


#16

Solution: Act like a professional adult, do your job, and don’t abuse your power as a supervisor. Sexual attraction isn’t an actual disability.

You probably should look at doing therapy again, but maybe shift the focus to it being your problem for not being able to work with people you find attractive, since it’s your lack of professionalism that’s the huge problem not the attraction.


#17

Was that aimed at me? I never said anything about attractive women spending time with someone professionally.

I was saying that some people (of either gender) would feel uncomfortable meeting someone (of either gender) they found (or were perceived to find) attractive in a hotel bar.


#18

While on a business trip, I sat down in the hotel lobby bar with two other people at the end of a long day of meetings. One of the guys got up to buy a round of drinks. As soon as he was a few steps away from the table, the other one turned to me and asked me to go up to his hotel room for sex (yes: stated, not implied) after we were done drinking. I was over 50 years old, so this wasn’t about being young and sexy. It’s just…standard behavior. The fact that I said no means that now he makes cutting remarks about me in front of others whenever we find ourselves in the same meeting (which fortunately is only a couple times a year).

So yeah, having an extra person as a protective buffer only works if they never get up to go to the bathroom or get a drink.


#19

Oh no, totally, but we shouldn’t HAVE to have that sort of “protection”.


#20

You can’t get in this van, honey. I’m waiting for the director.

“Well, sweetie, the director told me to tell you, get the fuck out of her van!”

Oh, I think I let my bitch show.