What to do with Confederate statues?

See my comment below. It was systemic during the late 19th and 20th century, too.

I’m still getting my legs with 3. 1 and 2 are amazing! I love track 3 on album 3, though.

Have you heard Meow the Jewels yet? OMG, do yourself a favor and go check it out. It’s a free download, so you have no excuse!

The videos are amazing too! Kittehs everywheres!!!

Along these same lines, I’d once seen fascism described as a rejection of everything, or almost everything, that came out of the Age of Enlightenment.

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More excellent ideas!

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I can see that. Or particular elements of the enlightenment, surely, if not the whole thing. They certainly embrace the nation-state, which is arguable an enlightenment idea. Marxism differed in that it argued it was the culmination of the enlightenment (same with liberalism - ala Fukuyama). It certainly rejects ideals based on human rights, which grew out of the enlightenment…

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Yes, #3, Legend Has It (which is in the background of the Black Panther Trailer) and No Body Speak where the two songs that made me perk up and go - whoa, this is good. This is my style of rap. This isn’t the mumble rap or what ever is the fad today that is just gawdawful.

I also saw some of Killer Mikes interviews and heard some of his solo stuff and hes on point. The Legend Has it and No Body Speaks videos are also awesome. I miss people trying to make some real art with videos. Too many of them are just meaningless visuals. Spending 3 or 4 minutes to tell a short story or make a point is almost a lost art. Instead you get super fast cuts of gratuidous excess usually. El-P I think does most of the tracks and I really like his style.

There are some incredibly good songs on these albums. On #2 is Crown which is just heart breaking, assuming it is autobiographical (and even if not, it exists as reality for some people). They are going to be in town for one of those big mass concert shows… I am tempted to go, but I am not sure I want to deal with that big of a crowd…

I have heard of Meow the Jewels. Since it is free I will look when I get home. I do love self parody and when people don’t take themselves too seriously.

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Is that what your avatar is about? :wink:

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Nah, that’s just a fan boy reference, and I was tired of the Boba Fett toy.

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Cool beans. He looks like Lee Van Cleef to me.

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Because of the nose, I always wondered what Peter Cushing would have looked like playing the character.

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Um, getting back on topic – like a Confederate statue? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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I wonder if citizens of the New Republic had to endure ugly public debates about monuments built in the likeness of Grand Moff Tarkin.

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It seems like you are very cool with forum members demonizing entire swaths of people with fabricated “facts” about them so long as they are not ever challenged on any lie that you don’t find too objectionable. If they can’t even stand by their own words with even a fundamental level of reason, then anyone is right to pick it apart.

I would challenge you to show how what you are doing here is not virtue signaling versus the ones simply arguing points against others. Since you are literally sitting to the side lecturing us about the right way to do things, and hypocritically denouncing others while doing it in the name of “positivity.”

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Note, the inutterably hideous Nathan Bedford Forest statue is on private property, but that thing is an offense against everything that is good and right in this world, and any comments I might make about the artistic value and historic significance of confederate statues and memorials should for gods sake not be taken as approval of that gruesome abomination.

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I reject the idea that destroying or removing these statues is comparable in any meaningful way to destroying ancient Mesopotamian artifacts. With few exceptions it’s not art historians or preservationists who are rallying to save these things. I mean, my parents are older than many of the monuments in question and I don’t know any archeologists who give a crap about preserving them.

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Destroying art that does not conform to a political ideology is a Nazi hallmark.

(But again, the Forrest statue is not art. :wink: )

Rewriting the history of the 1960s isn’t better than rewriting the history of Mesopotamia. Put the statues in a hate museum.

It bears repeating that the reason the memorial in Durham crumpled so easily was that it was a cheap mass-produced piece of political propaganda, not a rare example of exceptional craft in mid-20th-Century bronze work.

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It bears repeating that several of these statues are significant works of brilliant artists.

Put them where they belong, not in the public square, sure. But destruction of art and history is what the bad guys do.

Collect those ones in museums with plaques about the racist context in which they were created. Throw the rest on the scrapheap. We certainly don’t need to keep them all.

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Ah, now we are in total agreement!

Art has power. Use it to educate, not just about the Civil War, but about the redaction of history in the 50s and 60s that led to a generation of Southerners being miseducated about their own history, and seeded fresh fields of hatred.