What would a new US civil war be like?

Many more people are now aware of the reality and urgency of the problem.

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Well, maybe not in Mudville, but in general you are correct; it’s not all bad, all the time, everywhere.

“Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”

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Wouldn’t surprise me if Alaska did the same.

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Not only Bannon.

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The thing with trying to bring about chaos and discord is that it cannot be controlled…

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That’s been happening for the last decade or so, where have you been? :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, I guess you hadn’t heard…

Don’t buy any green bananas.

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During the Slavers’ Revolt, the abolitionists controlled the majority of US industry and military, as well as the executive; this was crucial to their eventual success. Later, 20th century conflicts emphasised the point that wars are won by logistics. Every soldier in the field is backed by ten support personnel working to feed them fuel, food and ammunition, and technology has the ability to massively amplify individual effectiveness.

So, what’s the balance of forces these days?

  1. Military and paramilitary (AKA police). Heavy advantage to the right; the majority of American armed forces (both military and civilian) are authoritarian extremists.

  2. Industry. Advantage to the left, although I’m not sure how strongly. California has a shitload more factories than Alabama, but offshoring has bled industrial capacity across the country.

  3. Economy. Heavy advantage to the left. Financially, the red states are mostly unproductive parasites on the industrialised regions.

  4. Technology. Heavy long-term advantage to the left, may not be relevant in the short term. The non-fascists have most of the scientists, but the fascists have plenty of engineers. And tech progression may not matter when both sides have nukes from day one.

However…

My impression of the US military is that it is still somewhat segregated, albeit informally.

  1. Combat troops: disproportionately dominated by middle class evangelical whites. Signed up for jingoism, adventure and the opportunity to shoot brown people.

  2. Support troops: disportionately dominated by working class PoC. Signed up for a job and an education.

That is an extremely broad-brush description, and there are certainly many exceptions to that simplistic picture. But it is the impression I have; I’d be happy to hear from veterans with direct knowledge.

Anyway: what happens to a high-tech military force when most of its mechanics etc are of unreliable loyalty?

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The officer classes are much more split, for various reasons, however a glance at Vet Stand (the group which congealed around Standing Rock) shows that significant numbers of grunts don’t really fit into neat ideological boxes.

FWIW, I know quite a few ex/current service-members, the majority of whom are outright leftists (not liberals.)

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It is my experience that people who are obsessed with guns and feel the need to try to kill minorities and attack immigrants are scared and weak. They are angry they have no jobs, money or skills. If things come to blows, tanks and armored personnel carriers financed by big city can take out crowds of good old boys in pick up trucks.

People who are not so scared they need to carry arsenals as security blankets feel secure because they have money, power and skills. Big city east and west coasters have money and resources A civil war would not be fought by a gang of men in pickups. It would be fought by governments, factories, and financed by banks and overseas allies. Just like the previous civil war was fought. The Northeast won that war because they could supply their troops with food, clothing and equipment when the South had run out of everything.

Look at Trump and his white supremacist buddies. They can’t find their ass with two hands. They can’t pass any legislation while controlling the whole government. They can’t even staff their government. Individually they do not have self control and cannot plan five minutes into the future.How would they organize and wage a war? If it came to war, they may cause a lot of pain, death and destruction for a while but the International bankers and shipments of weapons from overseas would overwhelm all the low population red states. Even if the Northeast and California did not re-conquer all the territory of the red states the US could just blockcade and ignore them. Those states would become real fly-over country. If Mississippi, Alabama and suchlike states had all their tax subsidies, monies from NYC, San Francisco, Seattle etc. removed, the coasts would lose some markets but those states would slide even further into third world poverty, collapsing infrastructure and chaos.

It would be wasteful and stupid to have a war. I do not want to have a war. but the Bubbas with a few M16s and AK47s would not be able to be more than a nusiance to the economic power, financing and worldwide manufacturing capacity of the globalist system they hate and would be fighting against.

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If the rest of the world = Western Europe, probably (old Europe anyone?) yes

The US foreign policy of the last decades wasn’t designed to create many friends. The friendly faces shown today are often forced because the US carries a big stick.

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It has been too long since I have meditated on the Principia Discordia, but I did not march down to that courthouse and give them $100 to legally change my middle name to Chaos all those years ago for nothing. Maybe letting recede from my consciousness is why I’m no longer the resolute and vigorous sort of person I was, instead eaten inside out by anxiety and fear.

War worries me, but for reasons that make this looming threat seem more final than other skirmishes of history. Even if the madman at the top doesn’t fire a bunch of nukes or actively dump oil into all the oceans out of spite, a war that destroyed the US would not only destabilize the world economy and order, but also ensure generations of crises as infrastructure and weapons systems broke down and failed catastrophically, left unmaintained.

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It would be a tragedy. Everyday we see on TV images of humanitarian crisis in different parts of the world. The effects of this crisis will last for years.

Even in a civil war in a country full of weapons like the United States, not all people would end up fighting. Many people would be caught in the crossfire. These people will try in every way to escape hell. Who could help them? One party would attempt to flee to Canada or Mexico. Some would go to europe. But I believe that most would be displaced within the country itself.

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According to the newspapers, my country is receiving a large influx of people fleeing Venezuela. Officially they are not refugees and the authorities of the cities of northern Brazil are doing their best to help them. But these people are out of work and end up overloading public services like hospitals.

This news began to feed the fantasies of hate-filled xenophobic people. In the minds of people we are being invaded by hordes of suicide bombers. At the moment, these stupid people are making noise on the internet. My fear is that hateful people like this minority of Brazilians is being taken seriously.

The other day a group of religious made a small demonstration against another eastern religion and a refugee selling oriental snacks was verbally attacked on the streets. Fortunately most people are decent and good. A crowd gathered and bought all this man’s snacks. He was so happy.

I would not like a war breaking out in my country and having to flee away carrying my family. Civil war is something we’ve never experienced here. I cannot even imagine what is it.

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I think the map is wrong re: Indiana. It might be blue in small pockets here and there, but it’s a strongly red state at the moment.

It’s not wrong. It’s the 2008 electoral map as I stated in the post. Obama won indiana that year.

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Another scenario.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Flagg!

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The adventures of Reuben Flagg. I really enjoyed reading Howard Chaykin’s comics. American Flagg was relaunched recently in my country, but in an expensive hard cover edition.

Why are these dystopian stories so fascinating and so successful?

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