The judge is probably aware that a young privileged white rapist is likely to be raped in prison, and he understands how damaging that would be…to someone who is exactly like himself. How it affects a nobody like a woman who didn’t go to Stanford…eh, who cares, right?
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What is the purpose of the punishment? Should all rapists be locked up for life? Is the sentence about paying for the crime? Punishment? Vendetta? Or is it about reform and rehabilitation?
I conjecture that the judge decided that this kid, who has largely wrecked his life, will be less likely to repeat the offense if he is not sent to live with hardened criminals.
But everyone here, who normally bewails harsh sentences, wants a harsh sentence here.
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You are either lying to yourself or to the thread with this claim.
Once again, for the umpteenth time: it’s not about harsher sentences for criminals. This particular violent criminal was given an unnecessarily lenient sentence because of the wealthy educated white male privilege he shared with the judge.
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From what I’ve read, it’s not statutory, but standard guideline.
Which isn’t something I said, nor is anyone arguing this in good faith in any of the comment threads regarding this case. The maximum guideline punishment for the crimes Turner was convicted of is 14 years. I wouldn’t consider that draconian considering he was convicted on three serious felony counts, and would probably be imposed concurrently rather than sequentially. The perpetrator’s skin color doesn’t change my opinion in regards to the crimes in question. There may be an argument that a wealthy, privileged individual should have the figurative book thrown at him/her to send a message to wider society that these people are not above reproach or the law.
Then again, perhaps we have differing opinions of what constitutes harsh. For me it’s 25 years mandatory minimum for possessing too much of some drug, 35 years for exposing murders committed by US soldiers, a life sentence for getting caught stealing property a third time, or prisons/states refusing to release people exonerated by the aforementioned Innocence Project. 6-14 years for raping an unconscious woman doesn’t come close to fitting the definition of harsh in my book.
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Oh yeah people that say that ‘it wasn’t like that in previous generations, etc, etc.’ were living under a rock or are just willfully blind.
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[quote=“Daedalus, post:63, topic:79355”]because he’s certainly been shown that as long as he’s a Standford athlete, that’s something that won’t be punished very harshly.[/quote]Didn’t Stanford ban him from stepping foot on campus ever again? He won’t get any help there.
Option 3 for me :’(
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No, and it’s complicated, but punishment and isolation are two big strategies.
For one, people want a fair sentence here, not a harsh one.
This adult man (not kid, adult), has permanently scared another person. She is likely to need therapy for the rest of her life for this. Her family will need it. She and her family (she has stated that her sister will often cry to the point of not being able to breathe) are harmed, forever.
His sentence is a dismissal of his actions, basically saying “hey, it’s not that bad” to everyone; when there’s huge harm done. His sentence says that rape isn’t all that bad, that he was just “getting 20 minutes of action” and that action shouldn’t ruin his life. I’m sorry, but he ruined the lives of a whole family; he needs to be held to that. He hasn’t shown remorse or acknowledgement about the actual rape, but instead keeps blaming the booze and the party culture. Sure, booze and party culture can spread the ideas, but he could have chosen not to do anything to her. I’ve gotten shitty-assed drunk plenty of times and never once would I’ve have even considered harming another person; he had the same opportunity.
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[quote=“Hutz, post:71, topic:79355”]
Is the sentence about paying for the crime? Punishment? Vendetta? Or is it about reform and rehabilitation[/quote]
Why are you commenting instead of reading Wikipedia? At least do a little work to educate yourself before coming in and asking for a tutorial on sentencing and incarceration concepts.
Next question. What do we know about the probabtion officer (apparently a woman) who recommended a lenient sentence to the judge? Why did she/he make that recommendation, and was it reasonable/logical from the point of view of their guidelines?
Edited to add:
I just read some excerpts from letters sent to the judge on Brock’s behalf. I realise that his grandparents are older, and not-unexpectedly biased in his favour, but seriously…?!
"We were shocked, and stunned by the outcome and left to the only thing we could do – hold each other and cry. We still are in disbelief. Brock is the only person being held accountable for the actions of other irresponsible adults. He raised a right hand, swore an oath and told the truth.
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To the deluded grandparents: what the actual fuck. The only adult who committed a crime in this situation is your grandson who raped an unconscious woman he dragged behind a frat house dumpster.
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He could have done up to 14 years in prison theoretically, though. There are laws there, and with potentially severe penalties - the problem is that most rapes aren’t reported, only a quarter of those reported involve an arrest and only a quarter of those have prosecutions that end in conviction. Certainly the attitude that women are property still exists to some degree, but the situation is complicated by rape culture, by law enforcement that disbelieve and/or are hostile to rape survivors (because the majority of police are themselves domestic abusers according to mental health surveys given to police, and therefore more likely to be rapists themselves), by male judges who identify with the rapists rather than sympathize with their victims, etc.
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I do struggle with the idea of whether vigilante justice might have some role in cases of serious crimes where we know for a fact the criminal justice system simply fails to deal with it, and fails consistently. (Especially in other countries where it’s even worse.) Rapists and would-be rapists are the ones who should be living in fear of their actions, not women who are simply humanly vulnerable, and right now that’s simply not the case.
This is so spot-on that I feel it needs to be mentioned a second time. In bold.
It’s not just substances that can disinhibit or incapacitate. Some drugs can induce mania, which is its own shitstorm of impulsive, risk-taking behavior. Google ‘Stupid things I’ve done while manic’. What you’ll find is way the hell different from what Hollywood portrays.
Oxytocin is a helluva drug. Have sex on that.
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That’s actually pretty good advice. Unfortunately, the chance that it will be followed lies somewhere in the intersection of jack and squat. For anyone who doesn’t live in Utah, there are places called “bars” and “dance clubs” that exist in cities such as London, Paris, New York, and especially vacation spots like Ibiza, which on any given friday or saturday are full of hundreds of thousands of people (both male and female, gay and straight) who are there for precisely that purpose; to get drunk and fuck a stranger, which they do, whether back in their rooms, on the beach, in the park (and hopefully not in washrooms or behind dumpsters). “Don’t drink and drive” seems to have gained traction, but I’m dubious that “don’t drink (or do poppers, or E) and fuck” will get much penetration, as it were. More realistic advice may be “don’t fuck someone who can’t talk or walk” and “don’t drink until you pass out”.
The problem isn’t with the maximum or minimum sentences; the problem is with the average sentence. At present, the upper end of the sentencing range is typically only applied in rare cases due to pre-conviction media attention, and is much more likely to be applied to disadvantaged minorities.
I’m all for ending mass incarceration; we need to stop filling the prisons with drug users, the mentally ill and subsistence thieves. Imprisonment makes all of those problems worse, not better. Tolerance, treatment, restitution, rehabilitation: all better solutions in these cases.
One of the reasons to do that is to reduce the broad societal impact of those problems. A second reason is to reduce the injustice to the people currently being imprisoned.
But a third reason is so that we can free up resources in the prison system so that it can do the one thing that prisons are actually useful for: quarantining those members of society who have demonstrated that their behaviour is too harmful to others to be tolerated. Although you can argue about exactly where the boundaries of that category lie, the obvious place to start is with murderers, child abusers and rapists.
We need to start treating rape as the crime of savage cruelty that it is.
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First off: points for that last sentence. Loved that.
But yeah, no question, it’s pure fantasy that a majority (or even a significant plurality) of sexually active people are going to give up booze just to maintain a sense of security in mutual consent. And to your point, Dan Savage has spoken out against the use of poppers among his fellow gay men, yet many remain willfully deaf to his advice.
Still, both you and I could appreciate @mewyn’s point. Perhaps a more practical version might be: enjoy lots of drunk making out that night, then go to sleep and party in the morning. Again, not advice everyone will embrace, but I feel pretty confident that it will resonate with someone.
Cultural change occurs in tiny pushes. Be that tiny push. The effort is worth it.
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Yeah, pretty much. I mean we can’t expect people not to; just as much as since abstinence is the only 100% effective birth control out there. But the thing is my second sentence from what I was saying; great care needs to be taken when there’s psychoactives around.
Best bet, don’t fuck when drunk. Baring that, consent first then get drunk and fuck. Baring that, be careful as hell. ANY hesitation should bring up a “do you want to stop?”, and always only yes means yes; everything else means stop. Consent can be revoked by either side for any or no reason and that means it ends. And, of fucking course, lack of response is not consent.
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Poppers are basically muscle relaxers, they don’t impede the user’s agency (i.e., get you fucked up) anything like the way alcohol does.
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