Nope. But at the end of the day, the only thing that protects society and it’s laws created via violence, is the threat of violence and the ability to carry it out.
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Why is it we leave out our nearby neighbors in this discussion because they aren’t “culturally & economically comparable”? Most of them have extremely strict gun laws - so why is it they have a much worse murder rate? Could it be because of the cultural and economic differences?
And if that is a possibility, perhaps the reason the US looks different than the other nations we are being compared to, it is because we have pockets that are culturally and economically different than those other nations. I would say the economic differences are more important. Time and again BB points out the US is the richest poor country, with millions barely scraping by or in poverty. Poverty begets crime. It would also explain why the murder rate has nearly halved since the 90s with out sweeping reform.
Take care.
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Open carry is illegal in Washington DC…
How long do you think that would last for?
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242 years is a fairly long time period to be able provide examples.
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Happily there are none (that I can think of offhand), and I hope to continue to live in a world where there are none. Meanwhile I encourage everyone on the left to use their enumerated right to bear arms to ensure they are protected against enemies of democracy, foreign and domestic.
Yep. Although the benefit of this plan is that no one actually needs to start carrying guns - the mere threat of mass gun-ownership by such groups would be enough to have conservatives scrambling for gun control laws.
That would be hard. The police and FBI were literally assassinating Black Panther members in the '60s and '70s. In the case of Fred Hampton, mentioned above, they got an informer to drug him and then launched a raid, during which they shot him as he lay unconscious in his bed. Granted that was in Chicago, where absolutely nothing has changed, but California wasn’t so different then. California police were blatantly political in who they targeted, attacking left-wing and black groups with both illegal assaults and trumped-up charges. As bad as some of the cops in CA still are, they’re a lot better than they were.
Though they often make a distinction between “legitimate” white gun owners and people-of-color, aka “thugs” who they think shouldn’t have guns, too. (Ironically, I’ve even heard that distinction from people who are themselves murderers who got off because the police botched the investigations. But as white men, they still see themselves as the “good guys with guns.”)
I suspect that the NRA has developed an entrenched power structure that would be resistant, if not entirely immune, to democratic reform. Which means anyone joining to change things would just be giving money to perpetuate what is now - a far-right authoritarian culture group that also acts as the gun lobby.
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Nice (not nice) usage there of the evasive passive voice.
The right has glommed onto “gun rights” and made it a sociopolitical wedge issue because doing so garners votes, and because weapons manufacturers who donate largely to republicans love how many more guns get sold as a result.
I imagine you know that. And I’m not actually surprised by your weaselly usage of the evasive passive voice.
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If
Black Lives Matter, ACLU, Emily’s List, NAACP, Human Rights Campaign, PETA, The American Library Association, Planned Parenthood, Democratic Socialists of America, the American Communist Party, MoveOn.Org, Southern Poverty Law Center, Mother Jones Magazine, Pacifica Radio, Alternet, Earth First!, Michael Moore, Paul Krugman, Stephen Colbert and Natalie Portman
all just joined the NRA, and tried to change policies from within…
Entrism can work.
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Same here in Vermont. I think open carry is a very bad idea.
This might help
Shays Rebellion
Whiskey Rebellion
Paper Money Crisis
Fries’s Rebellion
In each of those the government put down the rebellion. No changes to the law that were sought by insurgents happened. Some were charged with treason - George Washington put some of these rebellions down.
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I fight strongly for the Second Amendment, specifically in its Originalist form (which basically amounts to my supporting the existence of state National Guards). By your reasoning that would imply I’m also more of a champion of the rest of the current amendments than your average NRA member (true!), so thanks for the compliment.
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Using your rights do not make you immune from the consequences.
That’s the #2 myth of 1st amendment chicken littles
you are absolutely welcome.
It’s weird how someone can try to use one fairly vague bit of criteria (‘fighting against’ the 2ndA) to assume that dictates how millions of people think and feel about other issues.
I believe in the right to bear arms (not just firearms) for every citizen, but not without strong regulation, and more importantly INSURANCE in case of improper handling and/or misuse.
I do not believe in civilians owning military grade weaponry if they are not actively fighting in a war, and even then there are rules of engagement that must be upheld.
That I have such beliefs in no way negates my unwavering belief in freedom of the press (1), or that no one should ever be a slave (13) or that women should have the right to vote (20.)
The fallacious idea that the only way to uphold the laws that govern our society is by threat of injury or death via firearm is so deeply flawed and unsustainable that I have no words, so I’ll just quote Obama’s Mandela speech:
"…on Madiba’s 100th birthday, we now stand at a crossroads - a moment in time at which two very different visions of humanity’s future compete for the hearts and the minds of citizens around the world. Two different stories, two different narratives about who we are and who we should be. How should we respond?
Should we see that wave of hope that we felt with Madiba’s release from prison, from the Berlin Wall coming down - should we see that hope that we had as ‘naive and misguided?’
Should we understand the last 25 years of global integration as nothing more than a detour from the previous inevitable cycle of history - where might makes right, and politics is a hostile competition between tribes and races and religions, and nations compete in a zero-sum game, constantly teetering on the edge of conflict until full-blown war breaks out? Is that what we really think?"
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Because one would normally expect a country that has (for example) crippling poverty, systemic government corruption and powerful crime cartels to have a higher gun death rate than the United States. So if you want a realistic idea of how effective gun laws are you should attempt to control for as many factors as realistically possible.
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We never leave Canada out of these discussions. You want Mexico and Central American countries included, don’t you? The countries where the US is still fueling a violent drug trade? Yeah, that’s comparable.
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Since your comment is directed at me, I’ll answer.
The 2nd is the last resort amendment that protects all the others.
Interestingly, your three Obama quotes end in questions. He knows.
The fallacious idea that the only way to uphold the laws that govern our society is by threat of injury or death via firearm
I said violence, which is not the same, but effectively so since our police and armed services use firearms. That’s what keeps the peace. I’m not making it up, it’s how people have decided this works. Criminals get forcibly removed from society, by society which uses force and the threat of force to police itself. Force is violence and vice versa.
It’s not like speeches change thousands of years of human nature. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Even the most well armed individual is going to have a hard time defending the current militarized police. Just look at some of the right wing attempts to hold out against law enforcement in the 90s and what happened to them. Since the black panthers in the late 60s, the cops have gotten increasingly well equipped with overwhelming amounts of gear. If the cops are coming for you and you think that a few shot guns and hand guns is going to save you, you’re not seeing the reality of the situation.
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The black panthers is the only example I can think of, and that was probably the catalyst for the more militant police forces you see today.
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So you’re a defeatist with no vision, in other words.
“This is the way it has always been, its the way it will always be, and there’s absolutely nothing we can do to change it…”
Good to know; best of luck using whatever arsenal you may have acquired against the government if/when they decide to come for you.
ETA:
Obama framed that part of his speech as questions, because as a society, we have a choice to make. Clearly, you’ve made yours.
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