Finnish soil reportedly is too rocky for the vehicle’s mineplow, even with 1,500 horsepower behind it.
Finnish fields do have some soil between the rocks. Thankfully there are less adders now days.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5186/5186-h/5186-h.htm#chap19
I am aware of the process. Minefields are separated from the trenches, they are used to protect flanks and augment lines of tank obstacles. Covering trenches with cluster bombs will extend the area that needs clearing, and the trenches will still need to be checked and cleared of survivors, strongpoints and bunkers, before an advance can pass through them. At the same time engineers will be under attack by Russian artillery and drones. It is not simply a case of clearing a path, several routes need to be available simultaneously, for obvious reasons.
Let me make it clear, I am totally opposed to the use and supply of cluster bombs. Added to that, the supply of munitions that have been gathering dust, because the supply of them gives the opportunity to replace them with newer “better” cluster munitions is disgusting.
Also, Zelensky returns home together with some of the last defenders of Mariupol, the five commanders who were freed in a special POW exchange in September on the condition that they would stay in Turkey until the end of the war. Erdogan throwing punches ahead of Putin’s visit.
Why Ukrainians object to objections to cluster munitions:
Speaking of all the drama over cluster munitions for Ukraine.
Let’s resume this conversation when all those critics sitting in their comfortable air-conditioned offices somewhere in the West find themselves in a situation:
when their nations have to fight an existential war against an adversary enjoying overwhelming supremacy in artillery and air power, with a far larger economy and population, with a totalitarian political regime that knows no bounds and is ready to spend any amount of cannon fodder, including suicidal convicts and mercenaries.
when they see their own hometowns wiped off the earth along with their population and proudly proclaimed as “liberated”
when their nations have to mobilize way over 1 million men and women to the military and to try and keep their shattered economy at least somewhat afloat while trying to stay as free and democratic as possible
when they have to wake up in the dead of night due to missile and drone attacks and hope it’s not about their neighborhood and their house right here and now, and when they realize this is not going to end until the war is over
when they realize the ongoing war has inflicted major damage to their country’s critical infrastructure and that it continues throwing the nation decades back in time
when their military & political leadership has to spend endless months begging for weapons and assistance for their war effort, paying with the lives of their soldiers for every day in deliberations and risk management. Just to get at least something and go on saving the country.
when their militaries have to break through one of the hardest systems of ground fortification in modern history, having to use as little as they managed to get, losing soldiers and vehicles due to a dire lack of air support and endless minefields the enemy had so much time to prepare
when they all realize that their military has come so far against all the odds, but if it ultimately fails, their nations are absolutely done, they will all highly likely find themselves in pits with bullets in the back of their heads.
Now THEN I’d be very interested if they think their militaries need cluster munitions to go on fighting.
And speaking of civilian safety – the Ukrainian military in this war has repeatedly proven to be generally careful and discriminate when it comes to the use of weapons – well, to the extent possible in such a high-intensity war.
Especially in contrast with the bloodbath that Russia commits in this country on a daily basis.
So, dear ladies and gentlemen, I am very curious about why certain organizations overtly accuse Ukraine of putting civilians in war zones in jeopardy with cluster munitions before Ukraine even gets these munitions.
We welcome the decision of the US to provide Ukraine with the new liberation weapons that will significantly help us to de-occupy our territories while saving the lives of the Ukrainian soldiers.
Under Article 51 of the UN Charter Ukraine has a universal internationally recognised right to self-defence and thus we have been officially requesting these types of munitions for a long time.
I would like to stress that in exercising our inalienable right to self-defence we will continue to strictly comply with all the international humanitarian conventions signed and ratified by Ukraine.It is important to note that the russian federation has been indiscriminately using cluster munitions from day 1 of the unprovoked large-scale aggression. In February-March 2022 Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city with over a million population, was relentlessly bombarded by russians cluster munitions.
Our position is simple - we need to liberate our temporarily occupied territories and save the lives of our people. For this we need to inflict losses on the enemy - war criminals, rapists and looters - who are occupying our territories. The more losses we inflict on them the more lives of Ukrainian people we will be able to save.
It is in our interest to save the lives of our soldiers. This is why we will continue to do this using all lethal weapons available to us.
Regarding the cluster munitions, we have 5 key principles which we will abide by and which we have clearly communicated to all our partners, including the US. I have personally informed our US partners about these five principles in writing a long time ago.
Ukraine will use these munitions only for the de-occupation of our internationally recognised territories. These munitions will not be used on the officially recognized territory of russia.
We will not be using cluster munitions in urban areas (cities) to avoid the risks for the civilian populations - these are our people, they are Ukrainians we have a duty to protect.
Cluster munitions will be used only in the fields where there is a concentration of russian military. They will be used to break through the enemy defence lines with minimum risk for the lives of our soldiers. Saving the lives of our troops, even during extremely difficult offensive operations, remains our top priority.Ukraine will keep a strict record of the use of these weapons and the local zones where they will be used.
Based on these records, after the de-occupation of our territories and our victory these territories will be prioritised for the purposes of de-mining. This will enable us to eradicate the risk from the unexploded elements of cluster munitions.
The Minister of Defence of Ukraine is by law acting as the Head of the national de-mining agency. In this capacity I will ensure the implementation of the relevant legal framework for the de-mining process after our victory.We will report to our partners about the use of these munitions, and about their efficiency to ensure the appropriate standard of transparent reporting and control.
This seems like a pretty big deal?
It at least shows that Turkey might believe that the tide is turning and is wishing to curry favor with who they think are going to eventually win this war?
Or they’ve been given a free hand in Syria and Kurdistan so they don’t need to curry favour with Russia? I’m sure it’s a pain for Putain though. He would love to be on great terms with Erdogan right now to learn how to come back from a coup attempt stronger than ever.
Could be, but the timing of this makes me think that the recent Wagner group “coup” attempt is making Putin look weak to Erdogan. And he’s long had free reign in Syria and Kurdistan, because Turkey has always been strategically critical from the US POV…
Yeah, no doubt.
The Kissinger point of view… That’s a whole house of cards that is doomed to collapse (fuck you al Saud!)
Discussion of the pros and cons of cluster munitions from a retired US general
Reads like LLM written shit. Repetitive, contradictory, and with more multiple introductions than actual content.
With everything else in Russia fair game for being stolen, is anyone surprised that valour is too?
This is not a good look for Ukraine. Azov is a fascist organisation. It’s one thing to use them for cannon fodder, quite another to celebrate them.
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“Give me enough ribbons to place on the tunics of my soldiers and I can conquer the world” — Napoleon Bonaparte
They are too famous and too important not to be celebrated. Surely there would be a scandal if Zelenskiy didn’t greet them.
