Everybody has a different cost/benefit calculation.
Me? I’m at whites-of-eyes distance from 70 and try to spend my winters as a volunteer medic. This year that would be crazy without a vaccine, so my calculation is pretty straightforward.
Possible alternatives: there is some evidence that one or more of the “common cold” coronaviruses cause cross-reactive antibody production. If they can culture those things I’d take a squirt up the nose and share a few sneezes with consent.
I wouldn’t. Germany, South Korea, Cuba, Canada, Japan, … on the other hand? You bet.
Vaccine should go to health care workers first, then the elderly and near-elderly with comorbidities, then the rest of adults, then kids.
Some of the anti-vax activism has been driven by vaccinating all kids for adult diseases, it would be nice not to stir up that wasps nest any more than necessary.
Calling my mobile won’t help either. If I don’t recognize your number or caller ID, off to voicemail you go, unless you are on my long, long block list. Thanks useless FTC, thanks Verizon!
I should’ve used broader language when referring to “administration.” If we’re seeing a vaccine coming from another country I’m much less apprehensive. But when I hear 45 promising one, and a member of a US agency/institution (regardless of how much Fauci seems to be so much better than 45), I assume they’re talking about a US-developed vaccine. If someone else gets there first my fears are significantly reduced.
I’d definitely be less reluctant if someone else develops it before the US does.
Fuckin A;
No one I know is ever included in these so called polls that claim “a majority of Americans”, and I know a lot of people all across the country, from various different backgrounds and walks of life.
I once did a Gallup poll here in the UK, but in 46 years of living all over my country I know of ZERO other people who have participated.
Given that I’m healthy enough to deal with even unusually strong side effects, I’m with you. I’ll agree that rushing into a vaccines increases the risks, but someone is going to have to take those risks for the sake of the rest.
Any rational person would be crazy to assume a vaccine is safe and effective on Trump’s word alone. His lying, his unceasing unrealistic cheerleading, his abject inability to comprehend scientific concepts (or even try). Accompanied with his hiring of unreliable, ideological cronies in high- and mid-level administrative positions. His abysmal dalliance with hydroxychlorequine is just a preview of what will be his future performance. I’m even skeptical of Fauci: eg, why did he go along with testifying before the Senate and not the House? How far does Fauci bend to placate Trump?
I have to agree… maybe let the 20 somethings try it first? If after the first batch we don’t have a bunch of adverse effects, I will be in line.
This for me. As I said in the other thread, if they are mass producing the vaccine before tests are completed, they will be tempted/forced to push it through no matter what the results are.
“What’s a little rectal bleeding if it means you’re safe from COVID-19?”
If we have learned NOTHING else from all of this, we should have learned that MONEY is far more important to our overlords than PEOPLE, and always will be.
If they can provide the illusion of safety in order to keep us all in our places, slaving away for them, that’s what they will do.
I know you’re kidding with that last bit, but you sound like those three kids that let a black widow bite them because they wanted to become Spiderman.
But, by all means, if you feel it’s safe go for it.
Exactly. They are relaxing what can be put in our food, ffs.
The vaccine Fulci is talking about:
The vaccine in development by Moderna in partnership with the NAID will enter final clinical trials this summer and the company will start cranking out doses at scale before the testing is complete.
Private drug companies brought us the fucking opioid epidemic. You trust them?
Who will most likely be taking longer and test thoroughly. Trump is BIG about America getting there first. It’s his moon landing. He NEEDS it before the election.
The same ones who were bought by the Sacklers during the opioid crisis? Those doctors and scientists, that have been sterling examples of morals and responsibility?
Either you don’t believe the system is extremely broken at this point in history, or you don’t want to believe. I don’t know.
Trust them if you want to. This is one shit show that I don’t want front row tickets for.
I’m not a statistician, but I seem to recall reading a discussion of survey methodologies recently (Nate Silver/538 maybe?), and I believe the sample pool size is somewhere around 3000 randomly selected participants in order to get a statistically meaningful representation of the USA.
I think I’ve been a part of one legit political telephone poll in my life (ipsos/isay, a few election cycles back), and I can’t recall ever hearing anyone else I’ve talked to say that they’d been a part of one. Statistics is a strange world, from everything I can tell from the outside.
It’s similar enough (even in the ability to affect older folks) that the treatments, duration, and prognosis seem to be the same. The risks here are in the same sort of hospital logistics that make covid extremely risky. Capacity and access to care, which a functional vaccine will alleviate. It’s also still rare.
Meanwhile. Even while Kawasaki can be triggered by practically any infection we don’t see it being routinely triggered by vaccines. And the major risk factor is pre-existing autoimmune disorders or predisposition to autoimmune conditions. I don’t think this is a realistic concern.
I think “developed by the US” is still the wrong way of looking at it. I’d be less concerned about a vaccine developed by a US company with US funding touted by the WHO than a European developed vaccine only touted by Trump.
“The vaccine in development by Moderna in partnership with the NAID”
A private drug company. The NIH suite of agencies doesn’t do primary research. They provide funding and oversight.
Also antibiotics, every modern vaccine, and I could keep going. Primarily in partnership with public science and health organizations, funded by public money.
Funny that this announcement explicitly says after the election. End of year, early next.
What about all the other ones who blew the whistle about that. Complained about that. Criticized that.
And hydroxychloroquine. And bleach injections.
You’re welcome to start rubbing yourself with a crystal because the opiod epidemic means all science based medicine bad. But I don’t think that will work out well.
I think it’s safe to say that trusting anything that comes out of the mouth of this administration should be taken with extreme caution especially regarding a ‘fully tested’ and ‘safe’ Covid-19 vaccine.
Hard same here. I’ve also never been exit polled from voting, and I’ve been doing so for over 20 years.
Yeah, “oversight.” That said, my skepticism is split between NIH and Moderna equally. But whatever.
You could keep going, but there isn’t really a point since you don’t seem to be acknowledging that times have changed since antibiotics were developed, and not for the better.
There’s a reason Big Pharma is big pharma, and it’s not because they are awesome.
I didn’t say he was getting it before the election, I’m saying he NEEDS it before then, and will be doing anything he can to make it happen.
Lord knows that things like drop date announcements never change. That’s obviously been set in stone. /s
And they did it in time to prevent thousands of… wait. No. It took a shitload of deaths before it was given the attention it deserved. Afterward the Sacklers were impoverished, and the doctors who helped them lost their licenses to… oh, no, that didn’t happen.
Which last I heard was still being used on veterans, and Trump backed it as well.
Which Trump also floated as a possible cure. And it was easy for doctors to speak out against that. It didn’t have to go through tests.
In an attempt to remain civil, I’m not going with my first response, which rhymed with “meat spit.”
I’m not anti-vaxx, and I’m not pro-homeopathic/crystal healing. I believe strongly in science-base medicine partnered with rigorous testing. I’m still so angry at you for saying that, I’m having trouble thinking. Seriously, meat spit.
I DON’T TRUST THESE FUCKERS TO GET ANYTHING RIGHT.
You obviously do. Take the medicine they give you with a smile. I’m sure it will be perfectly fine.
I’m leaving it here. You think the vaccine they come out with will be safe and fully tested. I don’t. I agree to disagree.
You know, it’s not anymore civil to formulate it as “I’m not going to do that thing I’m doing right now”.
Neither is telling someone you don’t know:
So as far as I’m concerned, you started it. If you would like to apologize instead of taking more little shots, I’ll apologize as well. Until that time, meat spit.
There’s a world of distance between “I don’t trust the corporatized medical system and the current US overseers of said system” and this statement.
Don’t trust the administration. Trust the scientific community, and read the studies they’ve done to test the vaccine. If it doesn’t look rigorous enough, don’t take it. If you don’t have the background to read the study reports, find someone you trust who does to read it for you.
What I can tell you from a view inside the global scientific community working on the hundred-some vaccines in development is that the researchers are apolitical, international, and motivated to solve the problem of the disease. They aren’t in it for money (vaccines are notoriously less profitable than any other type of drug); they aren’t in it for fame or even credit. This is as close as you can get to a truly global, genuinely altruistic effort.
I will also say that, while the timelines for this vaccine have been accelerated, I don’t actually see corners being cut. It’s the same process, with the same testing and review. It’s just that massive global resources are being thrown at it to accelerate every step. They aren’t cutting out the study durations (60-90 days for phase 1; 180 days for phase 2) or reducing patient enrollment targets. It’s just that they are getting the patient enrollment done in less than a week instead of ~10 weeks; they are getting the tests processed in hours instead of a week or so; they are completing the reports in 24 hours instead of a couple of weeks. As mentioned in the other thread, production is being done before approval, so that they can distribute the vaccine at the time of approval instead of starting production at the time of approval.
So definitely be skeptical. But don’t be blindly skeptical. Do the research needed to make an informed decision.
