A round up of Trumpian events 🖕🍊🤡

[anon48584343]

Thoughts and Prayer Breakfasts

My lunch with alleged Russian spy Maria Butina

“Butina allegedly has close ties to a “Russian official” who was not identified in the court documents, but who has been widely reported by US media to be a Russian politician named Alexander Torshin.”

“Her Facebook posts reveal that Butina and Torshin were both in attendance at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington on February 2, 2017. It was the first such event attended by Trump as US President.”

Probable prayer recited that day: “In the name of gawd, guns and a stupid electorate let us collude together.”

[tekna2007]

Adam Beitman (adbeitman)

Juliet Eilperin (eilperin)

[Gyrofrog]

California GOP Congressman Rohrabacher met with accused Russian agent Maria...

[LutherBlisset]

Now, let’s come back to your posts as promised.

@anon61221983

it’s not like some of the stuff he’s pushing on is new (the 2% of GDP for NATO was the target under Obama and Bush).

That is true.
However, the rethorics have changed: while the Wales Summit has a declaration defining a target, it is no contract, and has no due dates. The Trumpist@s change the game mid-run, and they don’t negotiate but blackmail. This has never happened before. The US-European relationship has had an imbalance in power ever since NATO was founded, but it was in the long-term interest of the US. Trump is laying an axe on this with his inconsistent style of daily changes in good cop-bad cop bullshit. NATO is about war (or defense, same same), and that means geopolitics. The US had problematic, but consistent general policies, and the European partners systematically adapted their own policies to that. I’m by no means involved in transatlantic politics, but I don’t doubt for a second that the danger Trump’s 4% blackmail bullshit is a shock to this community. You’ve probably seen the headlines that the US are no longer to be considered a staunch ally. Hell, even in the US headlines are out that Trump is no longer the leader of the free world (whatever that is).

So, my point is not a push for more financial contributions by member states. My point is that NATO is no longer the reliable backbone of geopolitics for it’s member states.

[Regarding Trump sabotaging EU/UK negotiations]

@anon61221983

[Brexiteers] have agency and power to make decisions within their own countries, which they are using the controversial feelings about Trump (and general anti-American sentiment that’s long existed in Europe) to move things to the right.

My argument boils down to the fact that they are still somehow containable. They are part of a domestic power balance, which wobbles hither and thither, but has some fix points in the political system. They can try to disrupt or even destroy the system from within, but said system has, erm… excuse my wording: checks and balances.
Trump, OTH, is pulling strings from outside, and there are no checks on him any longer if he doesn’t comply to diplomatic standards. There are reasons why it is highly irregular for foreign representatives to comment on domestic issues. These reasons evolved through a hell lot of wars, many of them in Europe.

@anon61221983

I think that the far right in Europe is using Trump as much as he’s using them.

Tru dat. But being the representative of a superpower, and not being in any way accountable to domestic laws in any European country makes him extremely influential. See above on NATO and on checks and balances within a democratic system.

@anon61221983

Merkel was holding the line on German acceptance of refugees, and she’s now had to back off because of Seehofer. If Germany doesn’t hold the line, that’s a huge problem.

From an informed German POV, I have to say that Merkel’s line has moved a lot since 2015, and what has been happening lately is Symbolpolitik. There is no general “acceptance” of refugees, and there hasn’t been one even in 2015. It’s hard not to digress, so I rather don’t try to unfold this.
What is important, though, is that Seehofer’s actions have an echo. And quite a remarkable one. The European consequences are, again, much Symbolpolitik so far. (The borders are pretty much closed since last year, at least.) It remains to be seen if his political stunt will win his party any votes in the regional elections, BTW. Quite some people have publicly criticised him, personally and publicly, from various important branches of German society. The jury is already in, so to say, and the verdict is he has lost it. Let’s wait for the elections to see if he lost those, too.

Now, to your point again that Trump and the right wing asshats in Europe are in a mutual relationship: I don’t disagree, but I would maintain that Trump has much more influence on overall politics and, in the long run, on European policies than the European neo-fascists. Even though right-wing populists are in power in Italy, Austria, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary, full-frontal fascism is still not normalised here (did I miss a country? Sure I did, but I’m quite tired). Trump, however, is the new normal. The US are the greatest cultural, economic and, yes, political influence on European politics. The EU doesn’t automatically speak with one voice, but nearly all Europeans accept that the US do. Trump is the Voice of America. Your checks and balances are hardly perceptible over here. You are the bully in the schoolyard, now quite literally. You are, I am sorry to say, Trump. As you have been Dubbyah. And , yes, as you have been Obama.

You are more important than you probably think you are.

Oh, BTW, this has a stupid headline, but is worth a read:

Germany gains upper hand in European split over Trump trade strategy

(Basically says Trump is trying to destroy the EU to have only to deal with China in the long run. I think that’s possible.)

[LutherBlisset]

OMFG.

@anon61221983, I can’t even make this shit up.

Trump Questions the Core of NATO: Mutual Defense, Including Montenegro

Someone just shut his mouth, please. Force-feed him KFC, if you must. But stop your president from talking.

[anon48584343]

@LutherBlisset

KFC

That’s Kremlin Fried Cocks

The only good KFC eater is a dead KFC eater.

[anon61221983]

@LutherBlisset

My point is that NATO is no longer the reliable backbone of geopolitics for it’s member states.

That’s true, but would you say that given the fact that the EU as a coherent unit is a more powerful economic force in the world, aren’t they somewhat less dependent on the US? I’d still argue that the right wing in Europe is spring boarding off Trump for their own reasons (end to migration into Europe from Africa/ME/Asia and closer ties to Russia/Putin). I think Trump makes them more legitimate, and gives them a larger voice, but it also seems to me (as an outsider, from the US) that the right wing has been on the march in some places well before Trump became a political figure here.

@LutherBlisset

My argument boils down to the fact that they are still somehow containable.

Again, you’re there and I’m not, but it does seem to me that much of this goes back to the rise of Berlussconi in Italy. He sort of predicted the rise of Trump and I’d guess would have been more of a inspiration to the hard right. And then the migration issue also gave rise to a new invigoration of the right in France (Le Pen) and the Netherlands (Wilders). Again, both predate Trump, though his rise in the US helped to give them greater legitimacy, I think. In many ways, I think he took from those 3, and shined it back on Europe upon getting elected, further legitimizing the rightward swing. I do hope you’re right, that they are containable, but I do worry (much like I do here, where we supposedly have checks and balances, but those have been slowly eroding in the past few decades).

@LutherBlisset

there are no checks on him any longer if he doesn’t comply to diplomatic standards.

That is true, unless congress steps up. Foreign policy has been the realm where the executive branch has much more leeway, and the institutional memory has been used as a check more so than the legislative branch of our government.

@LutherBlisset

These reasons evolved through a hell lot of wars, many of them in Europe.

Yes, and it’s part of the reason why I worry about the break down of the current EU system.

@LutherBlisset

The jury is already in, so to say, and the verdict is he has lost it.

I hope so.

@LutherBlisset

I would maintain that Trump has much more influence on overall politics and, in the long run, on European policies than the European neo-fascists.

I hope so, but I don’t want to discount their own agency here, especially as they strengthen ties with the authoritarian Russian regime in power. Petro-politics still matter in this case.

@LutherBlisset

The US are the greatest cultural, economic and, yes, political influence on European politics.

That’s true, but…

@LutherBlisset

You are the bully in the schoolyard, now quite literally.

We have been since the end of world war 2. There has long been the case which many Europeans have pushed back against, especially culturally.

@LutherBlisset

But stop your president from talking.

If I could get him to shut his trap, I would. The people who seem like they can get him to moderate is the GOP and only barely. I think many of us are indeed trying to work on this issue, though and are working towards flipping congress this year (which is entirely possible, although the Democratic party could easily fuck that up) and then getting him out of office in 2020.

All I can say is, I’m sorry that he’s making the world worse. I promise I’ll try and do my part to get him out of office, if not in 2020, then sooner.

[ETA] Also, when it comes to the Balkans… no one should say anything about the Balkans unless they really have a grasp on the region. It’s been part of my studies (Yugoslavia in the 70s and 80s, mostly north of the country), and I don’t feel qualified to speak on what’s happening there. He is indeed regurgitating talking points from the Kremlin on that. It’s straight up what Moscow and Belgrade would love to hear. Next he’s going to say that Kosova shouldn’t be independent…

[LutherBlisset]

You are a much faster writer and thinker than I am, so again just a short re:, before I go to bed.

@anon61221983

given the fact that the EU as a coherent unit is a more powerful economic force in the world, aren’t they somewhat less dependent on the US?

This is, in a nutshell, the basic idea of the EU. The Montanunion etc. However, the US - and only the US - have been the driving force of market liberalism. And only the US can now roll back on that. The EU doesn’t speak with one voice here, they likely never will. (cf. multi-speed Europe, subsidies policies, etc.)

@anon61221983

seems to me […] that right wing has been on the march in some places well before Trump became a political figure here. […]

[Berlusconi, Le Pen, Wilders] predate Trump, though his rise in the US helped to give them greater legitimacy, I think. In many ways, I think he took from those 3, and shined it back on Europe upon getting elected, further legitimizing the rightward swing.

You are right there, and the legitimacy is the problem here.
Maybe my view is specifically German, but the populist you mentioned maybe normalised this, i.e. populism - but outright fascism would not have been accepted. The “strongman” pose does not work even for Berlusconi, ex-head of state of the fourth-largest economy in the EU. Berlusconi tested the rule of law, but the rest of Europe shrugged it off and said something in the line of “oh well, Italy is a bit odd”. Also, populist or not, misogynistic asshat or not: Berlusconi was a European politician. He tried to play the EU, but he played within the rules.
Orbán, now that’s a different story. If you are worried about failure of the EU system, watch out for Hungary, and Poland and how this is currently handled. However, not something big about the economy: both are net profit states.

Enter Trump.

@anon61221983

[Cultural, economic and political influence of the US] Therelong been the case which many Europeans have pushed back against, especially culturally.

True, but while the official state - like France in matters of culture - might have pushed back, and some groups were quite vocal, the general public and the policy-making groups embraced this influence in most cases. I mean, anti-americanism sounds so nice and ever since the Ho-ho-ho Chi Mihn chants it’s quite gauche to be anti-american alright. But paaahlease, turn up Jimi and don’t tread on my New Balance shoes. Also, gimme spots on my apple, and get rid of Monsanto, but give me that Rachel Carson book which somehow also started off all this Green movement. Oh, and that shiny iPhone which replaced all those Nokias, I could use it to google the latest DAX stock exchange stuff. Wall Street has already opened, I hear. At least there’s a pic of a bull with dongs on my newsfeed. Let’s see what John Oliver has to say about it.

All pushing and shoving granted, and all those Chinese companies involved in big silver screen flics (and multiplayer games, I think) - still, the US is where we look for inspiration.

Re-import Trump might be, but then, even the Native Americans came via Siberia. It’s just a matter of your reference frame, right?

ETA: shite, I should have gone to sleep an hour ago.

ETA2, since you explicitly said you are trying to do something against Trump: thank you. Please a) be careful, and b) please not that I’m not taking you personally responsible, of course; I’m simply trying to underline my point by not differentiating between the US of A as a multi-faceted society on the one hand and the person in the highest office of state. As we Europeans sadly often do. Must have something to do with our obsession with royalty… I guess…

[ficuswhisperer]

@LutherBlisset

Someone just shut his mouth, please. Force-feed him KFC, if you must. But stop your president from talking.

We’ve already seen how Trump feels about Montenegro.

(That’s him literally pushing their PM aside.)

[LutherBlisset]

Yeah, I remember this vividly.

As vividly as Putin’s dog, intimidating Angela Merkel.

[anon61221983]

@LutherBlisset

You are a much faster writer and thinker than I am

Not really… I"m just avoiding being productive! Given this is happening online, and is happening across the world, feel free to take as long as you’d like. I enjoy debates that are actually debates, that helps get us ALL to a better understanding of what is happening in the world today and in the past.

@LutherBlisset

the US - and only the US - have been the driving force of market liberalism

Do you really think so, though? I mean, it’s true that in the US the US took the lead in the “free” world, pushing for more open markets, etc, but certainly there were figures in Europe also supporting these ideas - the Austrian school of economics is a major influence in the modern neo-liberal school of thinking (Hayek and those dudes). Ideas are funny old things, though, aren’t they? They like to move about and be employed in different ways. The US may have led the way, but the first major part of the EU was the common market, right?

@LutherBlisset

but the populist you mentioned maybe normalised this, i.e. populism - but outright fascism would not have been accepted.

Indeed, but I think they can pave the way. Of course, Europe has a very recent and strong history with fascism (there in Germany, Italy, and Spain, but with fascists in other places, too), so I think that’s helped to keep it at bay. But as the holocaust recedes from lived memory with the WW2 generation dying out, I worry about that both here and there in Europe. Both my grandfathers fought in the war (in different fronts) and one helped liberate a camp in Germany (I think), but both have since died. As the generation that actually lived through fascism and the immediate aftermath, part of the bulwark against it dies with them, I fear.

@LutherBlisset

Berlusconi tested the rule of law, but the rest of Europe shrugged it off and said something in the line of “oh well, Italy is a bit odd”. Also, populist or not, misogynistic asshat or not: Berlusconi was a European politician. He tried to play the EU, but he played within the rules.

He’s an interesting case and I do wonder how much he was testing the system (both Italian and European), and if the current wave of populism in Italy is going to test it further. I wonder if that period of him as PM actually shifted the ground for further right parties/individuals? Unfortunately, we won’t know that for sometime to come.

@LutherBlisset

Orbán, now that’s a different story. If you are worried about failure of the EU system, watch out for Hungary, and Poland and how this is currently handled.

Indeed. A good friend of mine is married to a Polish woman, and they regularly go to Poland to visit family there. He says that he’s seen a major shift in the past few years, with more ultra-nationalists being more visible and out on the street. The law they just passed about not bismirching the good name of Poland by blaming Polish people for actions taken during the holocaust was an incredibly troubling sign, in my view. Holocaust denial becoming more common and accepted as a part of political discourse seems like a canary in the coalmine issue to me (like denial of racism here is).

@LutherBlisset

I mean, anti-americanism sounds so nice and ever since the Ho-ho-ho Chi Mihn chants it’s quite gauche to be anti-american alright. But paaahlease, turn up Jimi and don’t tread on my New Balance shoes

LOL! Yes, I know right. Our consumer culture is really attractive. But of course, an embrace of that doesn’t equal an embrace of American foreign policy. That was incredibly fraught during the cold war period, and in some way it continues to be. But at the same time, many of our musical subcultures especially have really managed to be localized, too.

@LutherBlisset

It’s just a matter of your reference frame, right?

That’s entirely true too… many Americans can trace their family trees back to pretty recent immigration waves (myself included). It’s part of the reason I think we’re so intertangled with Europe, because so many people in power had recent immigrants from Europe (relatively speaking of course). It’s funny, because I think Americans both understand that we’re culturally powerful globally, but we’re also suffering from some cultural inferiority with regards to Europeans, who we feel we have to constantly compare ourselves (I think this applies mainly to white, middle class Americans). Despite the fact we have the loudest, most brash culture, we also feel like we’re always trying to get Europe’s approval. It’s a weird ass thing, honestly.

@LutherBlisset

I’m not taking you personally responsible, of course

Of course! I didn’t think you were. I agree that we need to do something.

[SenorSchaffer]

Like he knows who that guy is.

[mr_raccoon]

A GOP congressman once lamented not being able to call women 'sluts' anymore

[ficuswhisperer]

Analysis | In his prepared remarks, Trump removed a line about bringing...

This is just unreal.

Even his prepared remarks are E. coli tainted word salad.

[ficuswhisperer]

Putin’s “Incredible Offer” to Trump Is Even Worse Than Anyone Feared

[Kimmo]

Hope you like this; it took me a few hours to cook up… (9.2MB)

[mr_raccoon]

The Onion (TheOnion)

[RickMycroft]

White House plays another round of defence on Russia as it leaves door open to...

Handing over a former ambassador to Russia? Without an immediate fuggetaboutit response?

[RickMycroft]

All the involved sensible people are saying no, but I think they underestimate Trump and the Will to Stupid.

Trump faces growing storm over car tariffs as lobbying ramps up - Article - BNN

[mr_raccoon]

Utah gun fanatics trail Parkland survivors speaking tour in armored vehicle with...