Amazon and eBay ban confederate merchandise

[anon68952647]

@LDoBe

I just want certain objects and books that are controversial. Some would say they’re even transgressive, and run afoul of various ethical systems. It’s legal to own, buy and sell a pickled baboon fetus. But Amazon ain’t selling those.

The Flea Market near me is the source for all your Confederate and National Socialist memorabilia. Truly the big time.

[anon33466019]

But they aren’t banned. That line is lazy rhetoric. They are unavailable from certain retailers, and that distinction–banned vs. Unavailable-- is important.

[LDoBe]

Just some good ol’ boys
Never meanin’ no harm
[remained ignorant of the intimidation and violence toward black people the emblem on their car represents]
[or maybe they weren’t ignorant and just didn’t care.]
[or maybe they meant harm and the song is inaccurate.]

[anon33466019]

@LDoBe

I know for a fact that PayPal doesn’t allow you to use their services for hentai of any kind,

For the love of FSM, elon has less than zero control on PP. I’ve been in that belly, and it is simple.

1. Will supporting a transaction make us look better or worse to the average person
2. Will visa stop processing our clearinghouse

That is seriously all it is. There is no Top Down control, it is all, and I mean ALL bottom up.

So dont blame elon, blame Frank in fraud services cause hentai art has a 40% fraud rate.

[LDoBe]

Blaming Elon was tongue in cheek. But I appreciate the explanation.

[ejconrad]

@japhroaig

hentai art has a 40% fraud rate.

I wonder how much is due to actual fraud, and how much is due to not realizing how explicit the title of the purchase would be on the credit card statement…

[Thebarton_Gamer]

And, isn’t this the “invisible hand of the market” at work anyhow? >.<

Captialists should be rejoicing!

[zathras]

@atl

There should be no “democratic means” available to anyone to ban the sale of a flag.

Okay. So why then, should there be undemocratic means available to ban the sales of a flag?

@lolipop_jones

Respectfully, this is nonsense. If Wal-Mart and Amazon decide to yield to one segment of public opinion by not selling the Confederate battle flag, and Buford Pusser’s Flag Emporium decides to yield to a somewhat smaller segment by selling that flag like crazy, this is in every way fine with me.

So maybe mail-order is a sufficiently well-developed market in the US that this will still work. How about the e-book market - if Amazon starts banning “confederate” e-books, will Kindle users have a second source?

So, Americans don’t want to ban any symbols, because Freedom of Speech. I get that. Would you be OK with a law that says Confederate Flags must be more expensive to get than other flags, and they must be more of a hassle to get than other flags? Because if “public opinion” incentivizes all large retailers and marketplaces - everyone except specialist shops that cater to racists - to “ban” those products, the effect is exactly the same as if the “public” had just voted a law to ban its sale outside of specialized “racist shops”. Only with less debate, more chance at knee-jerk reactions, and fewer checks and balances.

@anon15383236

These are democratic means, in the sense that the companies are run by private citizens perfectly capable of making up their own minds. And it’s quite possible that instead of being cowed by “the mob,” they’ve made up their minds to do the right thing, despite a loss of sales (since Confederate flag purchases have spiked these days).

If the decision is made by the people running the companies, than it’s not democratic, it’s plutocratic - i.e. the rich get to make the decisions. If they’ve been cowed by “the mob”, then it’s a democratic decision, but still not one made at the ballot box with proper discussion and proper checks and balances.

Banning symbols, just like any law from “don’t murder people” to “pay your taxes”, is a limitation of freedom. Limitations on freedom are always dangerous, but sometimes necessary. We’ve invented a fine system for deciding when and how to do that. It’s called democracy. Apparently, America’s founders felt that no symbol can be so odious that it justifies the limitation on freedom inherent in banning it. So if banning the confederate flag is such an evil freedom-defying act that you will never pass a law to ban it, why are you cheering on unelected powerful people doing it for you?

Note that I am not, in any way, defending the confederate flag here; it’s about if and how odious racist symbols should be banned. I’m fine with the way that the Nazi flag is banned in Austria.

[jansob1]

Perhaps we ought to be looking at some other symbols for which lots of people have been killed…the hammer and sickle come to mind, with a hundred million dead. Then some on the left would point out that the U.S. has killed massive numbers of folks…so no more US flag. And then we get started with the Union Jack, which is not exactly guilt-free…

[Wanderfound]

The Confederate Battle flag is as appropriate a symbol of “southern pride” as the Swastika would be to represent “German pride”, for exactly the same reasons.

Yes, the Slaver’s Revolt is an important part of the history of the US south. But it should be remembered with shame, not pride. The Confederacy was evil, root and branch, and its destruction was one of the very few times in world history in which war was entirely morally justified.

[Boundegar]

I agree, mostly. But somebody is saying “Don’t talk reasonably about guns because we’re talking about a popular racist flag instead!” The NRA is - you can bank on that - and when money is speech those guys are LOUD. They always always derail the conversation, with shocking skill.

[lolipop_jones]

@LDoBe

civil war memorabilia collectors and bigots and collectors who were also bigots

I don’t really like the association you seem to be making here, but I agree with the rest of your post.

[lolipop_jones]

Good point. Here is the flag of a country that enshrined slavery in its constitution. I’m writing to Amazon and ebay forthwith…

[SamSam]

@ejconrad

I wonder how much is due to actual fraud, and how much is due to not realizing how explicit the title of the purchase would be on the credit card statement…

What?? Oh no no, honey. THIS transaction? This one that says

8028 PAYPL PURCH TENTACLE POR*

That’s not tentacle porn! How could you even think such a thing?!? It’s tentacle pork! You know… regular ol’ tentacle pork? As in “I’m going to have a nice plate of tentacle pork for dinner?”

Don’t you remember? I made it last week?

[anon68952647]

@lolipop_jones

Good point. Here is the flag of a country that enshrined slavery in its constitution. I’m writing to Amazon and ebay forthwith…

can’t get a refund on your soul, but it’s a worthy attempt.

[laynesk]

STOP BEING SO MEASURED AND SANE IN YOUR RESPONSE. THE MOB DEMANDS INSTANT INTOLERANCE. WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION THE MOB???

Also, since when does banning something solve anything? It’s worked out SO great on drugs and alcohol.

[anon15383236]

What “mob”? Maybe you should stop fighting with your own fantasies.

[anon68952647]

@laynesk

Also, since when does banning something solve anything? It’s worked out SO great on drugs and alcohol.

Amazon and eBay already have policies about those.

False equivalences work out MUCH worse for all involved, guy.

[Brainspore]

@jansob1

Perhaps we ought to be looking at some other symbols for which lots of people have been killed…the hammer and sickle come to mind, with a hundred million dead.

Are there many violent, active hate groups in the U.S. rallying under the hammer and sickle these days?

[laynesk]

Unless of course you’re a baker who doesn’t want to sell a cake decorated with a pro-gay decoration. Then you’re going to be FORCED to agree with the opinions and positions you may find abhorrent.

So hold off on popping champagne - that’s not the freemarket at work. It’s “How Could ANYONE Disagree with My Enlightened Opinion?”. God forbid someone has the right to hold different views. It’s far better that we force everyone to agree under threat of ruin. It’s not like huge groups of like-minded people ever end up doing horrendous things.