But again, I never compared you or what you said to the driver - you compared speaking against white terrorism to red scare tactics used about communism.
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The one really doesn’t have anything to do with the other.
A physical assault is a physical assault and punishable as such regardless of any free speech rights the person assaulted may have been trying to exercise.
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I think that making comparisons to media in the 50s and 2017 is inapt, as in the 1950s, there were a lot more than 3 companies that owned the TV stations, and there was still a line between news and commentary that no longer exists, enacted by a press friendly to the executive - as well as recent heritage of national censorship during war.
It’s too great a reach.
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I’m not sorry, you still made the comparison, and had it consistently and clearly explained multiple times only to resort to trying to weasel out of your words. Nothing gained nothing lost I suppose.
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I have to agree. An assault on me while I exercise my 17th amendment (I picked that one out of thin air) rights is the same as one while I exercise my 1st.
There isn’t some special kind of assault. There MAY be additional charges related to civil rights violations - if you tried to deny me my 17th amendment rights based on my heritage, and said so repeatedly, for instance.
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Agreed, completely.
Okay, one more time. Let’s go back to the original quote:
Now, if you read that to mean: “People who ram people with cars because of their political views” should have all these things happen to them, I totally agree. But it’s essentially moot, because people who do those things should be in jail for murder.
I read it to mean “People whose views are repugnant to the consensus of society” should have all these things happen to them. Under that reading I not only stand by my red scare comparison, I’ll double down on it.
Only @gatto knows what the meaning is.
But if your contention is that “People whose views are repugnant to the consensus of society” = “People who ram people with cars because of their political views”, then we really are at an impasse, and I don’t think there is anything more to be said.
I think this statement is flat out wrong. I have no qualms with anyone being considered a terrorist if what they do clearly fits the definition, but you should probably explain “deeper measures” because it sounds like racial profiling, even if that’s not what you meant. The war against terrorism overseas is complicated and I have no answers there-- it’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.
The video and testimony from people there shows this is not really what was going on. The white supremacists were carrying shields and clubs and some of the organizers are on record as saying they came to antagonize and are hoping for more violence in the future.
It’s not like they just found these things lying in the trash nearby, they came prepared.
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Considering he literally says white terrorist, I took it to mean known white supremacy organizations that literally just committed an act of terror. You know, the ones that are the subject of all the conversations and who you still managed to not mention in your response - instead you speak to lone wolves and repugnant ideas, two things not really part of the conversation.
So yes, if you prop up two invisible straw men and then attack them visibly your statement makes sense in that regard. However, that just reveals another layer of bad logic to reach that conclusion.
The fact that you didn’t even compare the white supremacist group whose member was the driver to ISIS, but to Islam probably speaks loud enough. I am very uninterested in your brand of fanatism on this topic.
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Let’s have a big national conversation about the names that white people get called. That seems like today’s most pressing issue.
If someone doesn’t act in racist ways then congratulations to them for doing what all of us are supposed to do as part of baseline decency (as Chris Rock said, “Do you want a cookie?”). If someone does act in racist ways then it’s 5-year-old-level reasoning to blame other people for overusing the word “racist.” It’s time for people to take some goddamned responsibility for their own choices.
And seriously, when a woman started screaming at me in a store the other day because I was a “motherfucker” who was getting too close to her I thought it seemed obvious she was not well connected with realty, so I said “Sorry” and moved away. If someone yelled at me every day for the way I was behaving, I’d think, “I guess I must be the problem.” I somehow move through my life with only very rare instances of having my racist or sexist behaviour pointed out to me, and I don’t even feel like I’m doing anything special to accomplish that. When someone tells me I’m being racist and I don’t understand why, I try to figure it out instead of being a baby about it.
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Have you noticed anyone here calling for all white people to be put on a surveillance registry and banned from immigration because they might be fascists?
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Problem is, it turns out people really are racist, and if they pick you out, it is because there’s so many racists people around who hide it so well that its to be expected that there’s going to be false positives.
If someone calls you racist and you’re not, you should get mad at racists for having people on edge all the time.
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Stop, don’t do that. This is not a discussion about the first amendment, they were not silenced by the government. How is this a defense of the odious things they say and believe? It’s not supposed to be? Then it’s a distraction and a dead end, Stop.
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[Using your comment as excuse to rant further]
I’m so frustrated with blaming people for failing to engage with right-wingers. I am very strategic with my communication to my young children because I don’t expect them to be able to listen to straight talk like adults. But the idea that I’d be strategic with racists because if I call them racist I will hurt their feelings and make them retreat further into racism drives me nuts. I’m not the world’s kindergarten teacher. I am exactly the same kind of dumb ape as the person I am talking to.
I’m tired of the idea that people who call out racism and fight against racism are somehow responsible for racism or the dismal state of us vs. them politics. It only makes sense if those who are against racism are expected to be the adults while those who are racist are the children. I saw an interview with a black woman who was pretty chill about some racist thing Trump did and the interviewer said, “Do you ever get tired of being the bigger person?” and she said, “As a black woman in America, you always have to be the bigger person.” Do fragile white people have any clue how they look from outside their bubble? (the answer is “no”)
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That’s the GOP Congressional Intern class of 2017, so definitely not your typical workplace.
Direct election of Senators, not a bad choice!
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Welcome to the club.
That’s the most overused derailment and/or deflection tactic there is; it’s a piss poor excuse for not wanting to face the unpleasant reality that our society has a bloody, brutal and inhumane history based upon exploitation and dehumanization.
Racism is not the “fault” of Black people for merely existing;
Just as LGBTQ, Women, Muslims, Latinos, or anyone who is marginalized or persecuted are not to blame for anyone else’s insecurity, frustration and resentment.
We didn’t start the fire, it was always burning…
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i missed the party by sleeping. before i head to work, let me say that the red scare, japanese internment, the harassment of german americans during both wars - these are examples of culture gone wrong.
and, so is white supremacy.
we, as citizens, as people(!), have to oppose these things and steer our country, our culture, as best we can.
i’m not going to cede the public space to bigots who want to beat, maim, and kill - no hyperbole is necessary - my neighbors because they have a different skin color.
and i think we need to go further. we need to make this society much more just and fair than it currently is. or, we’re going to keep enabling these terrorists generation after generation.
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