AOC backs Biden

[mmascari]

@SamSam

People can have different opinions on what the best strategy is. That’s a reasonable argument to have. Nobody here is certain about what the best strategy is, however confident they are.

If I’m going on a fishing trip in six months, now is a good time to ask what kind of boat I should get, how I’m going to pay for it, what types weather it needs to be able to deal with, if I should buy a rowboat, speed boat, fishing trawler, luxury yacht. How I’m going to be doing the fishing and how that equipment and the boat fit together.

Having made all those decisions, I can load up the boat, head out to sea and start to fish.

While I’m out there, if a storm I didn’t expect shows up, there’s lots of decisions to make about how to recover from this unexpected condition. Nobody knows exactly which of all those possible decisions will be better or worse so I survive the storm. Do I keep fishing, hunker down, try to drive around, seal the hatches, start the bilge pumps? Lots of possible choices about what to do.

But, everyone in the world will tell you that deciding I should have bought a different boat is not going to help me survive the storm at all. It’s too late, I’m already on the water and in the storm. Deciding the fishing trawler was a mistake and I should have bought the speedboat to outrun the storm isn’t going to help me at all. You don’t need any experience in boats or storms to know that. It’s painfully obvious that changing boats at that point is to late and not helpful. Need to deal with the situation at hand, not invent one that isn’t occurring instead. That’s a plan to drown.

The presidential election went to sea 9 months ago. We’re on the water with our boat, there’s no switching now. Least we all drown instead.

@SamSam

But it’s freaking insulting to keep phrasing this as one side understands the true historic stakes, and the other side is fucking around for a laugh.

It’s insulting that one side keeps trying to deny reality and propose magic unworkable solutions.

There are thousands of things the Biden campaign could do to improve or degrade the ability to win. Lots and lots of opinions and discussions around those.

Walking away is the one thing they could do that will definitively degrade the ability to win. Historians tell us this is definitively the outcome.

As the tshirt says " Don’t Make Me Repeat Myself – History"

[DukeTrout]

@mmascari

While I’m out there, if a storm I didn’t expect shows up, there’s lots of decisions to make about how to recover from this unexpected condition. Nobody knows exactly which of all those possible decisions will be better or worse so I survive the storm. Do I keep fishing, hunker down, try to drive around, seal the hatches, start the bilge pumps? Lots of possible choices about what to do.

NO! We need to jump in the water RIGHT NOW! George Clooney said so! /s

[TornPaperNapkin]

Furthermore if the Dems want to win this shit then they need to prove to the rest of the US that they are not just the party of elites and you do not do that by deferring to fucking media elites.

[docosc]

But what about the sharks and the batteries? What do we do about that, smart guy?

[mmascari]

@DukeTrout

George Clooney said so! /s

Just saw this:

Wrath of Chaka Khan (@wrath_of_chaka_khan) on Threads

[ficuswhisperer]

@SamSam

But it’s freaking insulting to keep phrasing this as one side understands the true historic stakes, and the other side is fucking around for a laugh.

Isn’t it, though? And “the other side” seems to be made up of a lot of people on both the left and the right these days.

[KathyPartdeux]

Of the few electeds calling for Biden to go away and never come back are two who ran against him and lost pitifully.

Seth Moulton. Centrist.

Michael Bennett. Centrist whose brother was managing editor of the New York Times.

Both from money- both with big biz backgrounds. Men of the people; if you happen to be rich people.

[Oboo_San]

Certifiable
NatC
Nonsense

[subextraordinaire]

@mspie500 just posted that depite Biden’s poor debate performance, support for Biden has NOT changed. It seems to me that the people who are least threatened by Trump are trying to speak for those of us who are the most threatened with a Trump presidency.

Elections 2023 and 2024

@KathyPartdeux

Both from money- both with big biz backgrounds. Men of the people; if you happen to be rich people.

[Tamsin_Bailey]

George Clooney advertises for Nestlé so fuck if I care what he thinks about anything.

[mmascari]

@WTSherman

Lots of people involved in this discussion feel like the “other side” is ignoring reality, and we’d probably do well to at least attempt to acknowledge that and have a little empathy for the people who ultimately want the same outcome.

There’s two questions going on here:

1. Is the president is unfit to continue?
2. Can the president be successfully replaced prior to the election?

The thing is, the answer to the first doesn’t impact the second at all.

People continuing to press the first are making judgements with incomplete information. The actions they are taking are demonstratively harming Biden’s chances of winning. Even if that is not their goal. They are presuming the answer to the second is yes.

Historians tell us the answer to the second is “no”. That the mechanics of changing candidate at this point in the race are impossible to overcome and will cause a loss.

So, it doesn’t matter what reality I believe about the first. Doesn’t matter if I’m an armchair neurologist, speech therapist, a dog on the internet. The answer could be whatever. Meanwhile, actual history experts tell us the answer to the second. Which, if you think about all the deadlines, processes, lead times, and dates built into law becomes obvious.

Changing candidates at this point is a losing strategy.

[Mindysan33]

@SamSam

Do you really think that people here don’t see the stakes?

Some do not, no.

@SamSam

People can have different opinions on what the best strategy is.

And how does the public arguments help? That’s more about the party then here, but the infighting is the biggest threat here, I’d argue…

@SamSam

and the other side is fucking around for a laugh.

I can only react to what I see, and in some cases here, yes, people are kind of downplaying the stakes.

@SamSam

“The experts” are whoever you choose to believe.

Well… no. That’s some “all opinions are the same” BS and I suspect you know that.

@docosc

The talking heads are all over themselves to cry “crisis” because it draws views, engagement, etc

@xkot

Biden is the only person running against Trump at the moment

@subextraordinaire

It seems to me that the people who are least threatened by Trump are trying to speak for those of us who are the most threatened with a Trump presidency.

[WTSherman]

@mmascari

Changing candidates at this point is a losing strategy.

I think that’s probably true at this point with the facts as they are today, but I lack the certainty of some. But if Biden has another performance like he did at the debate, my opinion is that his candidacy is probably untenable. The odds of that happening are known only to Biden and his closest advisors, so I hope to every deity that will listen that they are honest with themselves and make the right decision for the country, not just for their positions of power.

I will continue to donate to Biden’s campaign and plan on volunteering in a swing state for voter registration. And I will do the same if Harris ends up at the top of the ticket.

[chicagobee]

This may just be my thinking, I may be wrong.
From what I understand, its too late to get a different candidate on the ballot in some states without breaking some established rules. After the election, this is what repugs will use to say the election was unlawful or unfair. Then what do you think SCOTUS do?

[nick_warr]

Are you somehow under the impression they won’t throw all the shit at the wall, to see what sticks?

Cuz if so:

[MadLibrarian]

Thank you, Schoolhouse Rock!

[chicagobee]

Oh, I am fully aware that they will try anything.
I am not naive. There are hundreds of scenarios that WILL happen.
This is just one that will backfire on the country for sure if we don’t stay the course.

[Melizmatic]

@therationalpi

bad faith arguments and infighting

@therationalpi

the venom being spat in these conversations

Doomerism is futile.

Both candidates are elderly, but only one is a faschist. That is the reality we must contend with.

And then there’s still the possibility the stress has a detrimental impact on the poor health of the latter before November comes.

[BakerB]

Look, if Biden drops dead as soon as he takes office we are still in a better place than if trump gets his ass back in the chair in the Oval Office.
I’m very sorry American politics has come down to facists versus democracy, but here we are.
If people want better candidates they are going to have to cultivate them, which means doing more work than yelling on the internets. If they want progressive politicians, they have to help get them elected. If they run a progressive candidate and that candidate loses, they need to figure out why and what needs to happen so they can win in the next go-round. We can inch closer to a more than two party system, but not in the next four months.

[RickMycroft]

@BakerB

Look, if Biden drops dead as soon as he takes office we are still in a better place than if trump gets his ass back in the chair in the Oval Office.

Also in a better place for 2028, with incumbent President Harris. Because, if the Republicans don’t splinter or get dragged to hell with Trump, then they’ll be fielding another fascist with the backing of Project 2029 and Koch jr. The battle continues.