I wonder if she called the bikers penis as well or if she used their names.
Sigh.
Time to get off this merry go round.
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⌠it wasnât Terry Tate was it?
Because that I could get behind.
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Maybe thatâs the root of our differences.
My political and social opinions are based on thought and experience. Yours are based on cartoons. One can only hope your economic views arenât centered on studying the contrasting monetary philosophies of Richie Rich and Scrooge McDuck.
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Well I had to add present simply because youâd end up berating me for how I donât realize the oppression that women still face today.
Oh I was just using one of your discussion styles, but it looks like I must have forgotten my sarcasm quotes.
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Unless we are talking about Haiti, in which case a zombie is a person who has been traumatised into believing he or she is dead. Ahem.
The discussion of who can be oppressed and who cannot is laughable. Any time authority is applied which causes unjust hardship, there is oppression. The taxonomy of the oppressed is secondary and should not be used to justify the harm. Those that would apply taxonomy to the oppressed in order to deny the oppression are chillingly immoral.
Silberkleit, like others here, seem to think there are classes of people.
Silberkleit contends that the case should be tossed out because white males are not âa protected classâ.
Divisionism is deplorable. The idea that some belong to one class of person while others belong to a different class is what keeps getting us in to these messes. It doesnât matter if the division is gender, race, skin tone, sexuality, nationality, or political party, divisionist politics have been used to create an us vs them world with no way out. We separate ourselves from each other until we become alien to ourselves.
Of course, the cynic in me thinks this is by design and merely a tool used by those who would benefit from distractions that keep us too busy to notice whatâs actually happening to us but thatâs probably the institutionalized separatist programming kicking in.
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Thereâs a tremendous difference between mocking MRA and mocking men. And FWIW, MRA make up a tiny, annoying, and shockingly-out-of-touch percentage of men.
See what I did there?
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This is the same thing thatâs happened to feminism; most of us in Western society have feminist leanings, mostly the notion that women are people, too, and deserve to be recognized as such. But people who rail on about feminism are talking about the ghost of Dworkin and a few Tumblr precious snowflakesâalmost certainly trolliesâwho write âI hate cisscum menâ and have âmisandryâ tattoos.
I used to have Mens Rights leanings, too, largely because Iâm a stay-at-home dad who has seen first-hand just how weird society can be about that, but because people hate this strawman view of it thereâs no way Iâd identify with the movement as a whole so thereâs no way I would utter those words together to describe my views, even though I think a dad should have custody of kids after divorce if heâs more fit than the mother, or that I recognize that men can be raped by women and that societal pressures men to just man up about it, or that male victims of domestic abuse feel pressured to just be silent on the issue because theyâre wussies if they speak about it.
And as far as the original post goes, well, Iâm thankful I live in a place where âwhite males arenât a protected classâ isnât a valid argument. Thereâs no legal difference between yelling âPenis! Penis! Penis!â to silence someone, and âCool your sweet tits, babe, men are talking.â Where I live, you canât discriminate based on race, sex, creed, or orientation. A black lesbian Wiccan and a white Protestant guy enjoy the same legal protections. Now, whether societyâincluding HR managers and judgesârecognizes discrimination against both as the same is a whole other can of worms.
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(Every time it rains, it rains) Penies from heaven
(Donâtcha know each cloud contains) Penies from heaven?
Thereâll be penies from heaven for you and for me
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ok sorry, mistyped. penis sounds like pennies?
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* Popcorn Munching*
These Oppression Olympics arenât as good as last yearâs. Oooh! Hot Dogs!
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Bullshit. Even if you want to argue thatâs the case for @anon15383236 (and it seems much more likely to me youâre misinterpreting the comment to which you were replying), Iâm pretty sure you have no good basis for concluding thatâs the case for âmodern feminismâ in general.
I hesitate to suggest this due to your apparent sensitivity on this issue but hereâs a more charitable interpretation of @anon15383236âs comment than the one to which you jumped:
Men subject to harassment at the company in question can be relatively sure that when they leave that company and get a job elsewhere they will not be subject to similar harassment. (After all, whatâs really noteworthy about this story is how bizarre it is. That indicates that ending up in a similar situation would be really improbable.) Whereas thereâs pretty good reason to believe that a woman leaving a job due to comparable harassment would have a much higher probability of receiving similar harassment elsewhere.
Now, to some degree whether this actually makes the situation worse for harassed women than for harassed men depends on whether your particular moral code is more rights-based or more consequence-based. Judging by your stuff about âequalityâ and âreparationsâ Iâm guessing youâre a rights guy so I can see why you reacted the way you did. But rights-based moral codes are not a priori more justifiable than consequence-based ones and on the latter type we have reasonable grounds for thinking that harassment of women is actually more harmful than harassment of men (ceteris paribus).
None of which is to say the CEO is actually justified in harassing men . She wasnât. Presumably thatâs why sheâs getting sued. If @anon15383236 thinks the lawsuit is unjustified then I would join you in disagreeing with her (though sheâs nowhere indicated that this is the case) but I would still disagree with you on the purpose and aims of âmodern feminismâ (as if it were a monolithic institution with unified purpose and aims).
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Spot on (and head-nodding to the rest of your comment too); I certainly do think the lawsuit is justified.
Iâve never met nor read a feminist who wants the power over men that men have had and still have over women, though I suppose they could be out there. Anyway, the ones I agree with argue, as you just did, that even though cases like the one at Archie Comics sometimes do happen, the more general gendered playing field is not yet level. Maybe thatâs too subtle or complicated for some people to understand? Or maybe theyâre just willfully blinded to it.
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Well, @bcsizemoâs contention is not that women want power over men per se but that:
Doubtlessly, @bcsizemo, if s/he wanted to defend this assertion, would claim that although few to no women admit such motives that they are either actually lying as to their motives or that these are unconscious motives belied by their actions even if they are denied out-loud. (Iâm actually a little curious as to which @bcsizemo thinks is the case.)
Anyway, the ones I agree with argue, as you just did, that even though cases like the one at Archie Comics sometimes do happen, the more general gendered playing field is not yet level. Maybe thatâs too subtle or complicated for some people to understand? Or maybe theyâre just willfully blinded to it.
Iâd tend to be more charitable and assume, as I did in my comment above, that @bcsizemo is perfectly capable of understanding the argument but that due to a difference in moral outlooks would not necessarily consider the argument relevant to the contention that itâs worse for men to do this to women than for women to do this to men. Taking a rights-based view the two are indeed equally bad and I can see why someone who takes such a view would react negatively to the sentiment that this sort of behavior is worse for one gender than for the other. And the rights-based moral perspective is quite defensible so I donât think @bcsizemo is wrong for holding such a view in the first place.
These sorts of disagreements seem to me usually to be caused by differences in moral values so thatâs where I tend to look first.
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Such a bullshit argument. By this standard if a gay person who grew up in the west goes to an insane country that bans homosexuality, like much of the Arab world, they canât complain because they could just go back to the west and regain all their privileges. A wrong is wrong regardless if it is perpetrated against someone who is rich or poor, white or black, man or woman, etc.
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This is Sue Sylvester!
Once again: no one is claiming that what this woman did was not wrong, or that her victims shouldnât be upset/complain/sue over it.
What weâve been saying is that, unlike cases of sexism against women, her actions were not part of a long-established and widespread pattern of abuse against men in our society. This doesnât make her actions right, but it does change the context in which they were committed. Itâs the âinstitutionalized pattern of abuseâ vs. âbad appleâ question.
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Strange how so often, that just doesnât seem to register, no matter how often it gets said.
I guess a lot of people see something that makes them think âUh oh, FEMINIZM!!!â Then they stop thinking and let the ingrained stereotypes take over.
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I guess what weâre seeing here is that basically;
âWhat she did was wrong, and inexcusable.
But all men are entitled pigs, anyway.â
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