Fair. If anything, the US is in need of a massive overhaul of its judicial and court systems. It’s shocking how political they’ve gotten (I know they’ve always been to some degree) in the past 5-10 years. I know Canada isn’t immune to it either, but somehow our court system has still remained much less political compared to the US.
Edit: Not trying to say Canada is better either. Give us another decade… history shows we tend to follow a path led by the US.
You’re not going to find 1 person on this forum who doesn’t think the leaders, CEOs, popes, people in parliments and sentates… actually pretty much anyone in a real position of power need to face more real consequences.
That said, don’t go light on these foot soldiers, make sure they know they cost of failure.
A cannon without fodder can’t cause serious damage. Every last one of these people has to face trial and be prosecuted to the full extent of the law., including this slimy old lady. If she’s lucky enough to get a true jury of her peers (i.e idiots) they might even believe her BS story. This BBS, in contrast, is not a court of law. No-one here is obliged to give her the benefit of the doubt, even if you think her “poor little me” excuse is a plausible one.
Historically speaking, we’ve seen what happens when insurrectionists and those who would undermine liberal democracy as let off lightly or let off the hook. They always come back to try again.
Is it OK if we talk about the case, though? Because it seems from your posts that it’s somehow not OK.
None of us are involved with the court case. We can’t bring it to trial any faster and we can’t influence the outcome. We are spectators in the process.
She just innocently attended a meeting and signed a card. But she didn’t sign the fake elector document?
Later she did this:
Lundgren and three others—Meshawn Maddock, Marian Sheridan and Kenneth Thompson—appeared at the state Capitol on December 14, 2020, with then-state Rep. Daire Rendon, who said the “electors” were there to cast their votes, the affidavit said said. They were turned away by the Michigan State Police and not admitted to the building.
Invested enough in the scheme to march over there but she didn’t sign the paper?
Even if she didn’t actually sign the paper, even if her signature was forged, she was a party to the conspiracy. Which is one of the charges
Two counts of forgery, one count of conspiracy to commit forgery, two counts of election law forgery, one count of conspiracy to commit election law forgery, one count of publishing a counterfeit record and one count of conspiring to publish a counterfeit record.
Lady is playing on her age and her race to claim she’s somehow so incompetent she didn’t know what that meeting was about, didn’t sign forgery, didn’t march the forgery over to the Michigan Senate and attempt to pass it off as real.
They probably have her fingerprints on the paper, phone and text records, and Facebook messages.
The primary problem with our justice system is NOT that it has become political. That sounds an awful lot like a Trump talking point. The problem with our justice system is that it isn’t actually about justice at all. It’s about keeping historically marginalized people marginalized. We have the largest prison population the world has ever seen. And the 13th Amendment’s prohibition on slavery carved out one exception. These two facts are not unrelated. So get out of here with this nonsense about the politicization of our justice system.
This quote isn’t even consitent within itself as a single sentence.
Somewhere between “I was an innocent little bystander in this whole thing” and “thinking I was doing my civic duty” the entire thing falls apart. If she was just some bystander not aware of what was going on, then what civic duty did she think she was doing? If she was engaging in a civic duty to impact the election, then clearly she wasn’t some bystander.
Based on that quote alone, I shall choose to belive she is unhappy with the consequences of her actions but not with the actions themself.
It sounds like a Trump talking point because it is. Trump can’t help but telegraph what he’s doing.
Trump’s complaints about “Activist” judges and such comes from the fact that he’s doing it himself.
From an outside view, your judicial system is political. The fight over who gets to appoint judges, the political leanings of the judges, the steps towards judges not just interpreting but writing law? That in my books is exactly that, the politicisation of the judicial system. You may be exactly right on the causes, but I can’t say I’ve studied enough American history/politics to really have an opinion on that. But, again from an outside observer, it appears that the US political system is in a virtual deadlock because at any given time, different parties are in charge of Congress, Senate, and the Presidency, so Repugs have gone down the path to use SCOTUS on implementing the law as well as stacking lower courts to attempt to stay in power.
This is not news to us Americans who are not in denial; we are well aware, thanks.
That has been how our justice system works since even before 1789. As far as judges writing law, I’m so tired of complaints about that. Welcome to the world of common law. It’s literally part of a judges job in a common law system, which you also have up in Canada. Regardless, none of that has anything to do with this topic, so I’m out.
There is no question that the Republican Party committed the crime of forgery, as the documents are prima facie evidence. They are forged federal election documents. It’s only a question of who committed the forgery: was it some republican party operative with photoshop and a scanner, or was it Ms. Lundgren forging her elector status herself?
Photoshop forgery may be a possibility. However, republican competence has been so carefully hidden that I don’t believe it exists, so there’s the high likelihood that if it’s a copy/paste job it was incompetently done. It should easily be determined through matching the physical evidence of the paper documents she actually did sign that evening and comparing them to the forged election document.
And ask Musk if his signature on the bid to buy Twitter was invalid because he was “duped” and “scammed” into making a stupid offer. See if that got him out of having to close the deal.
i’d wager the defense will work and they’ll get wrist slaps or less.
…and that there is an ironclad way to send them to jail if they recant their regrets after getting off, like QShaman.
I think this is wrong. What saved the US this time around was dozens of small players - the GA Sec’y of State, etc - who refused to cooperate. What they are working on right now is destroying the fabric of opposition to a coup inside of the GOP, and they are nearly done with that. This being part of a coup, they should all have the stakes that John Hancock saw for the Declaration of Independence - “we should all hang together or we shall all hang separately”. A few firing squads are what I’d personally think is best for people who don’t want a dirty war by the GOP in the US, but I’ll settle for draconian jail sentences.
We are. And if we don’t wipe out the whole movement, it WILL happen again. That means going after small fish like her.
Again, this isn’t a court, and no one here is playing a role in this case. So, yeah, we can talk about it, and we can condemn her. None of us are “bypassing” the law by passing judgement on her and the adherents to the MAGA movement.
Once again - does this LOOK like a court of law to you? Really? Because it’s not.
This is precisely how we got here. Rather than cleaning up the white supremacist movement after OKC bombing, law enforcement ignored it and focused on doing the exact same thing they SHOULD have been doing to white supremacist groups to Muslims going to their local mosques.
But sure… white people should never be held responsible. They are all innocent dupes who are never culpable for what they do… /s
And our friend here seems hell-bent on advocating for that here. The biggest threat to the country right now ARE white supremacists, led by Trump. We take that out, the whole thing, or we’re fucked. We should have done that in the 1860s and in the 1960s, but we didn’t, precisely because of the mind set of “well, it’s over now, we can forget about it, and we certainly shouldn’t hold poor, innocent whites responsible for what they did.” Bullshit. This keeps coming back up, precisely because we did not root it out and hold people responsible for years and racial violence and systemic oppression. The state of our criminal justice system, where white people, especially wealthy white people from “respectable” society keep getting a pass. We either stop that pattern, or we’ll never fully deal with this problem.
Yep. We go after both, or they’ll continue doing what they’re doing.
I’m currently enjoying my breezy Summer beach read, (The J6 Report by Adam Schiff), and upon further review every one of these fake elector assholes can and should seriously go fuck themselves straight to the hoosegow. ALL of that shit was premeditated and planned out- she knew exactly what she was doing.
Another face for the leopards
Especially if they are married to Carl Lundgren.
