I think you’re spot on re: her strengths as a legislator, and I hope she’s one of those folks who spends six terms in the Senate getting shit done. It’s interesting to see how folks outside the state perceive her, particularly now as maybe her perception moves toward a more progressive Democrat than she’s generally been viewed here in Illinois for the last 15 years or so.
When she got her start in 2006, she was among a group of Democratic candidates picked by Rahm Emanuel to counter a wave of anti-war Democrats that the DCCC viewed as too progressive for their preferred vision for the party.* Again, to her great credit, she’s turned out to be an effective and smart legislator, but when folks put her in the same basket as Warren and Abrams, it shows me at least how things (and people) change and it may not be wise to cling to decade old labels.
*Unfortunately, Rahm put her in a race over a significantly more progressive candidate to prevent the seat going to a non-DCCC Democrat, even though it meant keeping the seat Republican for the time being
I’m not surprised that Emanuel would put her forward in that way, given her military background. The one thing I’m not clear on is her economic position – where would you put her on that spectrum?
I understand how you’d be reluctant to lose her as your Senator, but the fact is that these days she’s generally considered a progressive figure in the larger context of a very conservative nation. Also, it’s unlikely that she’ll get the VP spot, so the good news is she’ll keep representing you.
I’m not 100% sure she has one, to be blunt. I’ve always found her to be pragmatic and willing to be convinced by what seems to work, which is a very good thing. She is not an ideologue of any kind, and in my opinion will change her opinion to fit the facts. But I also don’t think she has a very strong notion of what outcomes she’d prefer to aim for in a perfect world. She’s not someone who spent her 20s planning for a political career and steeping herself in ideology, which is probably on balance a good thing to have as a balance to all the folks who decided at 23 what they’d believe in passionately for the rest of their lives no matter what.
(also, I admit that reading everything back I’ve written could reasonably come across as criticism of her or damning with faint praise, which isn’t my intention; as I said above, I like her, have voted for her & will again, and hope she’s a Senator for as long as she wants to be)
Unfortunately I probably wouldn’t. She’s female, a warrior, a POC, born overseas, disabled, a working mom, and powerful. That ticks a lot of boxes on peoples’ Hate Scorecard. I expect the only way it could have been uglier was if she was also a lesbian and transfemale rather than cisfemale.
Ok. The US has a two party system and the right wing party is incredibly good at uniting under whoever is nominated.
Anyone who wants the admin and the GOP out of power needs to hold their god damn nose and vote for Biden and whoever his running mate is. NOTHING ELSE FUCKING MATTERS RIGHT NOW.
We can discuss other change during Biden’s first term or during the next election cycle. For now the focus has to be on complete and total support of the DEM candidate. Anything else is literally supportive of the GOP and Trump. PERIOD END OF STORY.
Not to you or me, or to a good chunk of the people reading this, but unfortunately it does matter.
If there’s anything I’ve learned from last go round, it’s that there is a way to fuck this up even if I don’t know how it will happen.
Yep. It doesn’t stop people from fighting against their own best interests though.
You can serve some people a choice between chicken and broken glass in a covid and baby shit reduction, and they will still ask how the chicken is cooked.
No, we can do both. Human beings are capable of holding two seemingly conflicting ideas at the same time. Holding two related and complementary ideas is a piece of cake in comparison.
That’s why I’m holding my nose for Biden. But there would be a little less stink in the joint if he chose a progressive who actually places, say, racial justice above supporting police forces that are grounded in large part in white supremacy and serving the wealthy.
Also, it does us no good to refrain from pointing out the various choices’ weaknesses. Anticipating them will help us counter the GOP and Putin when they inevitably start exploiting them – especially since the DNC is so bloody incompetent and tone-deaf at handling it that they could very well end up in the position where (per @anon73430903) UK Labour’s position finds itself now.
Discussion is going to be all it’s gonna be, just like with every other neoliberal-lite Dem politician since 1992 (Obama included). Biden is better than the duopoly alternative, obviously, but even from a position of skin and gender and sexual-orientation privilege no-one should fool themselves. All he’ll do is buy a few more years for the Third Way at a price that young people, PoC, and LGBTQ people can’t really afford.
Given that, let’s start discussing it now and not later. And let’s start setting some expectations and demanding some shows of good faith (like a VP who’s not only a woman of colour but is also an actual progressive).
Yes, it actually does. The pressing issues faced by a variety of people do not just evaporate because Trump is in the white house. If we don’t keep pressure up on Biden and the democratic party, we won’t actually fix our issues.
No. We can discuss them right now in this election cycle. We need to go into the next 4 years with the expectation of change for all of us, or it’s pointless.
Oh I’m fully aware of all of this and do not disagree. Same with @gracchus post.
My issue is left leaning voters have a serious issue…infighting. They can’t seem to focus on a singular issue; meanwhile right leaning voters are amazing at compartmentalizing said same and focusing on one thing at a time.
We need to adopt that for this election cycle. We need to put aside anything that could distract and focus on one thing and one thing only…getting Assclown and as much of the GOP out as we can.
I dislike Biden (I happen to like All of his potential VP choices and prefer a couple for POTUS).
It’s not infighting for a constituent or stakeholder to demand real change instead of the same old business-as-usual BS. Those demands can not only be incorporated into an election cycle but, if expressed effectively to the point they’re embraced by the candidate, could draw in a lot of people who otherwise don’t vote. And if that’s what makes Biden’s margin we might get a lot more as a country over the next four years than “AtLeastHe’sNotBiff”.
I’d agree with your underlying sentiment more if someone was expressing an opinion along the lines of if Biden picks Harris/Abrams/Whoever from the short list, then no way am I going to vote for the ticket and here’s why that makes me so clever. But I’m not sure that’s what’s being expressed, is it?
Each of the folks on the VP list has pros and cons. Last time I checked, none of them were without flaws, and all of them had merit. I think people of good faith can take as read all the underlying sentiment about not cutting noses off to spite faces, while still discussing (and even disagreeing) about what would be the best choice.
What are we meant to do exactly, being told that issues that are critical to our lives are secondary and we need to shut up about them? Every damn time things get tough, women, people of color, the LGBQT+ community, etc, are told that our very real world concerns are secondary and need to take a back seat… AGAIN?
Well. I had the distinct impression from that above reply that if Biden picks XYZ it will some how ruin this or that.
“I’m watching this party in the UK fall apart…“
The implied point is that Biden’s veep choice could ruin the DeM party over how current issues are handled over the next four years. I do not disagree that is a possibility…I am arguing that nothing else matters but changing the current administration.
Obviously others disagree with that and they have the right to. I am not going to change my stance that nothing is more important right now than getting him out of office, and that anything that jeopardizes that is bad business IMO. But if the right wingers have once again Focus their numbers and the rest of us split this way and that over those other issues and once again LOSE. We have no one to blame…We owned ourselves.
I mean, to be fair, the numbers don’t seem to be bearing that out. I happen to believe that the most realistic chance Trump has of “winning” is to cheat and/or disregard the election results, and the priority should be on keeping this from being close enough to get away with stealing. I want these people crushed, and their base to be devalued to the point of absurdity.
Fingers crossed and all. But we heard similar polling numbers and commentary in 2016. And look how it turned out.
There are plenty of tactics and lessons from the political right I never care to employ or espouse. But their single minded method of supporting the party’s selected candidate Is absolutely one I can get behind to get us moving in the right direction.
Any negativity thrown at Biden and his VEEP choice becomes ammunition for voters to split off. If you want the GOP crushed (like I do as well) then it will take pushing as many votes to Biden and his running mate as possible.
Friend, I say this with no animosity and not to pick a fight, but you may want to consider why you believe the following to be correct:
…while also believing it is ok for you to say things like:
For me, there is a meaningful difference between constructive, good-faith disagreement and pointless circular firing squads, and I see more of the former than the latter going on here.
You are singling put a quote to use against me when the intention Of said comment was to point out like mindedness. It sure. I’m the god damn enemy and part of the problem. Ofc I am.
I had a fucking harm meant attack a week and a half ago. I knew I should have stayed away from here.
