Getting a lot of reminders of ADF this week…
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Everyone is lightweight compared to Nicola Sturgeon, who is now my first choice for president of the United States. (That said, I thought Corbyn’s speech yesterday was very good.)
While Brexit is a giant, unnecessarily stupid step backwards, I do think there is some overreaction, especially from the youth complaining about having their futures stolen. This is natural, since for anyone under 40 being part of the EU has been a normal part of their entire adult lives. Those of us old enough to have been paying attention during the initial run-up to European membership will remember that the arguments “pro” only barely won out over the arguments “con,” and that while EU membership has been transformative in many ways, changes were already happening in the UK in part because of the increased mobility and contact with the rest of Europe. While many of the Leavers were apparently voting for a return to some kind of wonderful imaginary UK of the 80s (or 60s?), the obvious actual model should be Norway, which is not such a bad place and which is pretty well integrated into the rest of Europe despite not being a member.
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The Norway deal, EEA membership, is a viable option and looks increasingly likely. However for a country as big as the UK it isn’t such a great deal and it is a step backwards. If you look at the countries that have the deal currenty, they are small and rich: Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. Those are countries that would realistically be under Europe’s sway whatever they do and even as full members they would have only limited influence at the European level. For them it makes sense to formally subit to some but not all of the EU obligations in exchange for common market access while maintaining a higher degree of independence than members. For the UK it would be every eurosceptic’s straw men come to life. Nothing would change on immigration. The UK would still pay. And now the EU would impose decisions on the UK for real. That may very well be the least bad option going forward, but the leavers won’t like it much.
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Sod the tone policing! Solidarity! I’m slurping!
######Wait, I want to rephrase what I said
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A Guardian comment going viral:
I think it’s unduly optimistic, though. Someone will be dumb enough (Liam Fox?).
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Seems like the smart thing for the next PM to do would be to announce “OK, now that we’ve all thought the consequences through more (or at all), let’s make doubly sure it’s something we really want to do”
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I only just saw that Corbyn sacked Benn today. I really can’t see him surviving now.
If he gets jettisoned by the PLP, how does he get back on the ballot.
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Does our new breakaway EU state have to be geographically bound? I’m stuck in the middle of a Leave stronghold here,
Also, for the people who say we should stop calling Brexiters xenophobic bigots: sure, when they stop acting like 'em.
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…and have, by voting Leave, voted for an even more neoliberal and anti-poor government.
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My point exactly. Cameron, one of the leading supporters, has resigned, giving us a better chance to reject it. Boris? Well, he’s flip-flopped on the issue, so there’s still a good chance.
I’m a Corbyn supporter generally, so have never voted conservative anyway.
I realise France has threatened to veto it, hopefully they will. We shall see.
Good name, because if he becomes PM we’re all foxed. His main ambition seems to have been to get as many US arms bought by the UK as possible.
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So…explain how we go back to the 1980s, keep the North Sea Oil in the ground, and invest all the money from the sale of government assets into a Sovereign Wealth Fund?
Unlike Norway we are a poor-ish, resource light, relatively high population density country which for hundreds of years has been dependent on trade and finance. The British Empire was of little benefit except militarily. Norway pays the EU for its arrangement.*
In the days of British independence we paid heavily for our trading status by funding the Royal Navy to keep the seas open. It cost a lot more than the 1% of GDP that went to the EU. I wait with interest to see how much Johnson and Farage are prepared to invest in the Navy to protect the British fishing they pretended to support.
*edit - apparently the new Norwegian contribution is about 90% that of the UK per head, so in exchange for rather few benefits and £15 a head off per year, they get no input at all into EU decision making.
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The magnificent Chuck Tingle finds a way to get something worthwhile from Brexit:
Yes, this is a real book. 
Plot summary: “When Alex learns that Britain has decided to leave the European Union, he’s shocked by just how normal everything seems. But the calm doesn’t last as Alex is suddenly accosted by a giant living coin from the not so distant future.”
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You don’t. This will be a shock for sure to the Leavers my age and older who apparently thought the Brexit vote was a time travel device. However, there’s also no turning back the clock on some of the trade and travel connections that have developed over the last 30 years, so I think whatever the UK ends up with it won’t be a complete unraveling of what has been accomplished. If nothing else, most people in the UK consider themselves Europeans in a way that was not true from the distant past through the early 1990s (even if many are still ignorant of what the EU really is). Brexit can’t change that.
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Tingle was a national treasure. Now, I feel it’s safe to say, he belongs to the world.
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Wales, despite receiving huge EU investment and ‘suffering’ minimal immigration, voted overwhelmingly to leave, thus shooting itself in the foot, leg, torso and head. You might need to rethink your opinion.
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I agree with you entirely, apart from your view on Gove - I think he will do/say anything to get closer to the #2 spot (he’s Wormtongue, not Theoden). He comes from the same journalistic stock as Johnson, and his politics are reductio ad absurdam (‘We’re fed up of hearing from experts’).
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