Are we sure about that?
The 17-year-old met Aldinger while he was in seventh or eighth grade at Easton Area Middle School and she was a substitute teacher there, court papers say.
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If there was evidence to the contrary, certainly that would change things. But if there isnât (and so far, there isnât, when it would be even bigger news), then we shouldnât assume it wasnât consensual.
Not sure what this has to do with consent of a 16-year-old. Iâm not arguing that the teacher was right, only that, based on the available facts, imprisonment is unnecessary and reactionary.
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I honestly donât get it either. Iâm German and I never heard of any case in Europe where people would have taken offense in a similar case.
That guy was sixteen, so he was old enough to decide. From that age it just would not matter here in Germany where theyâve met or where they had intercourse or who has what kind of religion. If he is sixteen and the sex was consensual then it was a private thing. No one should get publicly humiliated for that, neither the woman nor the young man.
PS: just doublechecked the laws; it does not seem to be forbidden here (heâs old enough to decide), but itâs a bit of a grey-zone because she (as a teacher) is supposed to be his guard. she would probably get fired, maybe fined, but no jail.
Hereâs a German pamphlet for teachers and students (Google translated) to educate them whatâs okay and what is not: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bjr.de%2Ffileadmin%2Fuser_upload%2FPraetect%2FMaterial%2Fjugendschutz_sexualitaet.pdf
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Youâre working from the assumption that a minor can give meaningful informed consent. Consent isnât enough if the person giving it is a child.
If that were the sole determinant of a societyâs sanity, and if there was no age of consent in Europe, then you would have a point. But though the age of consent varies throughout both North America and Europe, I know of no European nation where age is irrelevant to consent. More importantly, only a complete simpleton would believe there to be only one determinant of a societyâs sanity, so either you think me a simpleton, or you did not think through your characterization of my argument. Consequently I must respectfully disagree with your conclusion.
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And here in Sweden, the age of consent is 15. Not saying we donât have problems over here, but technically, sheâd not be a criminal here, unless I misunderstood something about our laws. Sheâd in all likelihood be fired and branded for life, thoâŚ
Exactly why it is 15 or 16 or 18 seems a bit foggy, to be honest. Clearly, at some point a person is a child, and not ready for sex etc, but at what age does one become old enough? It seems highly variable, but I guess a line in the sand is, if nothing else, clear and indisputable.
Wasnât there a similar US story like this, where the teacher was a bit younger? And when she got out of jail, she and the student got married (he was, by then, old enough that he got to decide that for himself)?
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I believe there is a correlation, in âChristianâ nations, between the law-making power of the Catholic lobby and the higher ages of consent.
i.e. the longer they can hold dominion over your natural desire to shag, the greater the control they exercise by basically making you feel shame for everything natural that you do.
That said, I do not disagree with ages of consent. 16 in the UK has never struck me as out of kilter with the nation at large.
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Interesting point. In Europe religion and sex are considered private things. As long as it is not completely off-limits (eg. satanists eating babies on a group-sex orgy) it usually wonât even get widely publicised even if there is prosecution involved. âSex with teacher on graveyardâ might get a small column in the local newspaper, but ⌠honestly: who wants to know the details? If it was a wrong thing to do then the law should take care about it. There would usually also not be a photo shwn of the perpetrator or the victim (because both deserve a certain level of personal dignity and privacy, whatever theyâve done).
Sex in USA on the other side seems to be highly correlated with religion (and politics!) and both seem to be very public topics, which can sometimes feel very weird to a European to read about. Thereâs a tendency to public shaming, not only the perpetrator, but also the victim, that feels archaic and often vile to Europeans.
Why is it necessary to show the photo of the assumed perpetrator (the teacher) even before anyone decided that what happened was actually wrong? As far as I understand she was arrested and sheâs accused of having done something that was probably wrong under local laws, but by showing a photo of her and printing her name she will be publicly shamed even before a court can decide if she is actually guilty of what sheâs accused to have done. Next step would be public lynching by the mob, without courts involved. All this public shaming would be unthinkable in Germany, because as the constitution here says: âHuman dignity is inviolableâ.
Somewhat related: https://www.ted.com/talks/monica_lewinsky_the_price_of_shame?language=en
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Mary Kay Letourneau. Theyâre still married!
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Anyone else wonder about a 16 year old in 7th grade??? My son is turning 12 and starting 7th grade after the summer âŚ
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I was briefly puzzled about that as well, but then I thought that maybe grades are counted in a different way in the US?
Actually, nothing grey there in Germany. StGB § 174
[Sexueller MiĂbrauch von Schutzbefohlenen] is pretty clear on that âŚ
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Iâm neither a lawyer nor is the topic so interesting for me that I would yearn to know the details, but after reading the paragraph I have to admit that because sheâs his teacher she would get prosecuted (even though Iâd still assume that the extend of the verdict would by far not be as brutal as in the US). I tried googling a similar case in Germany but all the news I can find about âsex with teacherâ just brings up news from USA. Maybe its just not en-vogue hereâŚ
29 pages of court decisions based on section 174 StGB - not only teacher/student cases, but not unheard of in Germany : )
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Lots of people in America go to churches. By telling everyone theyâre constantly sinning, you can control what they do, how they feel, and what they think.
Itâs all a bit nasty.
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You know your sources! Interesting! Nevertheless I did not assume that it does not happen in Germany (or elsewhere in the world), maybe I was not making a clear point, sorry.
I wanted to make a point about:
a) public humiliation of perpetrator and also often the victim in the USA (often with clear names and photos, even before a court can decide if the accusations are actually true) in comparison to Germany (where names are usually not mentioned and photos are not published, often not even after conviction, to spare the convict as well as the victim from public humiliation)
b) the public interest in / as well as the correlations and blending of religion and sex (and politics!) in USA, that are sometimes just weird (or disgusting) for an European to read about, because religion and sex are both considered to be private things
c) and even after reading all the court-cases that youâve linked above: the penalty for sex with a student in Germany seems to be much lower than in USA; most of the cases that I opened ended with a verdict of ânot guiltyâ or suspended sentences (the case of a 32 year old teacher that had an affair with a 14 year old student for example: http://www.lawblog.de/index.php/archives/2012/01/13/lehrer-liebt-ungestraft-14-jahrige-schulerin/ ).
For sure a student needs to be protected against sexual abuse (and the verdict on that 32-year old that I linked above is dubious to say the least), but in the above mentioned article someone gets publicly humiliated for (probably) having done something (with someone whoâs 16 years old) that might not even lead to a jail sentence in Germany.
I donât say that the jurisdiction or the degree of penalty was better here (in Germany) than there (in USA), I just say: itâs different here and cases like this do not seem to be either such a big problem or of such a great public interest here in comparison to the USA. Furthermore Iâm puzzled about the act of public shaming of someone whoâs not even convicted yet, which is - from my European perspective - a bit weird, to say the least, because in most European countries even a convict has personality rights, and that is - in my opinion - a good thing. Abused children have a right for privacy (to find a way to cope with their abuse is a very personal thing that should not be happening under the eyes of the public) but also the convict has a right for privacy (so he or she can find a way back as a useful member of society without being branded and expelled from society for life). Maybe itâs a European idea, but these are ideas that I strongly believe in.
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While the age of consent in the UK is 16, the is a clause dealing with people in positions of power (eg a teacher) where consent might have been coerced.
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Now that youâve written that, we know who to blame for the ideological was between Europe and the USA in the wake of Trumpâs election.
So: who is it? Me!?!? Iâm responsible for the ideological wars between USA and Europe!? 
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âChristian nightmaresâ indeed. And when those nightmares become daydreams that Christians then enact, and when I think about the power that Christians in the US have to enforce their twisted moral codes on others, the hypocrisy becomes almost maddening.
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Agree, and I think itâs disappointing that BoingBoing felt the need to pile on by giving the full name of the teacher involved.
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