Christian teacher arrested for sex in cemetery with 16 year old student

boing
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I dunno. I think we should keep the meaning of this phrase in mind. I don’t see a problem with “institutional” sexual assault in this context, because there’s a meaningful power dynamic there. But, I do think that if you’re old enough to consent, that’s what it should mean: You’re old enough to give meaningful consent. Whether that age is sixteen or eighteen, it shouldn’t exactly matter (if the phrase means what it actually means and isn’t a legal term of art) how old the other person is. I mean, we don’t arrest sixty year old for perving on eighteen year olds (gross as it often is in its manifestations.)

That being said, whether that age is eighteen or sixteen or seventeen is really up in the air. The cutoffs will always be arbitrary. That being said, people under sixteen should be immune from any kind of silly trumped up child pornography charges or molestation charges for having sex, because that’s a fairly ridiculous idea. I mean, I would definitely think there was something wrong if kids were having sex at an appallingly young age, and would try to get them to talk to a professional, but they shouldn’t be arrested for it.

Oh, and we should admit that the sex offender registry has largely been a failure at doing what it’s supposed to do and has just created a platform for social ostracism. When we’re putting people on it for prostitution, you know it’s failed. Most children are abused by relatives or friends of the family, just the kind of person you’d put in your blind spot even if they were on the registry. Registries don’t keep rapists out of bars or parties. It’s not necessary, and the solution to sexual violence in society isn’t to create a caste of outlaws that have little to nothing to lose because they can’t have a life after prison.

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Are you also against the common practice of news outlets publishing mug shots?

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The problem with ages of consent is there are only two pertinent “hard lines” in biology.

The first is the beginning of puberty. Not many would argue that a person is mentally, emotionally, or, indeed, physically ready for a sexual relationship at so young an age, so that kind of sucks as a metric.

The second is when the brain’s structure becomes largely finalized. This is about the time when dangerous behaviors by youth stop (which is reflected by insurance rates going down). This occurs at approximately age 25.

Putting the age of consent at 25 would be draconian, and completely unrealistic.

Anything between start of puberty (age 10-12) and 25 is a compromise, based on shaky science, obscure scriptures, and intuition.

So, to both sides: please don’t get all high and mighty because your age of consent is higher (more protective) or lower (less draconian). Everyone is making the best compromises that they can, given the data that we have to work with.

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I wonder how well it poorly Christianity correlates with illegal behaviour.

(not immoral because 18 as the age of consent/adulthood is not biblically derived)

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Actually, no.

If a 16-year old consents to sex with a 40-year-old, that’s fine by me. It’s insane to send someone to prison for it.

Also, if A is legal and B is not, then people who do both A and B should only be punished for B and not for A. Otherwise, you have a serious perversion of justice. In this case, “A” is “having sex with a 16-year-old”, and “B” is “doing so as a teacher”. In other cases, “B” is “possessing illegal drugs” and “A” is “being black”. Sometimes, “A” should really be illegal, and sometimes there are good reasons why it’s not.

I, too, am working on the assumption that a 16-year-old can give meaningful consent. If someone is old enough to go to prison for rape, then he is old enough to give meaningful consent.
If the teacher abused her authority as a teacher to coerce or manipulate, that is a different matter. After all, we don’t look kindly on bosses who tell their employees “have sex with me, or I’ll fire you”.

Also, I never understood how American culture can characterize 16-year-olds as “children”. By the iron law of linguistics, I just have to accept that this is the meaning of the world “child”, but it still feels weird to routinely lump in the teenagers with the small children.

Of people not yet convicted of a crime?

I definitely am. It’s illegal here in Austria, by the way, and I expect any local news outlet that breaks that law to pay a stiff fine. And I wouldn’t want it any other way.

Being led in handcuffs in front of a waiting camera is definitely quite a disgusting practice.
We can be pretty sure that she didn’t actually rape the student (as in, used physical violence to coerce him), so the use of handcuffs is definitely unnecessary. Why not just ask her to come quietly instead of handcuffing a non-violent alleged offender and pushing her towards the police car? How did the camera team know where to wait? How is this anything but an exercise in showing off police power and humiliating/punishing someone who is innocent until proven guilty?
In fact, I wouldn’t even have thought it necessary to actually arrest her. She obviously wasn’t arrested in the act of having sex, so why not just suspend her from her teaching post, give her a court order not to approach the alleged victim and to appear at court for her trial?

Happens now and then. Positive sexual relationships between a minor and a 30-year-old are rare, but definitely possible. Society should punish the exploiters, but it is probably necessary to forbid all sexual relationships between 13-year-olds and adults in order to be able to catch all the exploiters. Too bad for those few happy age non-conforming couples that are kept apart by society’s norms. But when a judge is convinced that it is one of those cases, there should only be punishment for “crossing the arbitrary line in the sand” and not for “child molestation”. The latter is a life-destroying crime, the former is a victimless crime.

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I was being hit on, seriously, by an 18 year old a while ago.

I felt pervy, and I was just standing there!

Granted, I did stand there a while, basking in the WTF and also the hmmm of it. But pervy!

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God is Love.

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I question whether we should be presenting this as a case of Christian hypocrisy. Or if it’s even worth highlighting that this person was a Christian. If it’s the Catholic Church, and this was getting swept under the rug with hush money, it would be different. But it’s not like this is a case of Christian institutions or doctrine directly enabling an immorality. If this were a secular school and she was some kind of Administrative Director of Widget-thing Studies, she would still have power over the student- so it’s not like religion is playing a demonstrably significant role here. There are also larger philosophical problems with shedding light on hypocrisy in general. Someone can be horrible without the whole group being liable, especially when the group doesn’t condone a person’s actions. Hell, even if a person is a horrible person, the worst you’ve ever met, it doesn’t make them wrong when they make ethical pronouncements. If a murderer tells you murder is wrong, you don’t stop believing them because they’re a murderer. So why should you stop believing them when they tell you that homosexuality is wrong, or eating cereal with orange juice? It’s the textbook definition of the ad hominem fallacy.

I think that with hypocritical busy-body moralists in politics, it pumps our intuition a bit about how much we really want or need government getting into our lives about being gay or straight or someone who plays Magic every weekend. But it doesn’t change anything. They don’t prove or disprove anything about ethical issues through their actions. In this case, it’s not really someone of real power, but the issue seems to be that Christians in the US are incredibly nosy and judgmental when it comes to other people’s sex lives. I’m just not sure that the one thing has anything to do with the other. All roads do not lead to Rome.

I do have a question about Christian morality if someone can answer it. I wasn’t brought up with the faith, and I’ve only ever studied it as an outsider to it, so maybe a Christian or Ex-Christian can answer this for me: How do Christians do the whole judgmental thing? With something like Islam, it makes sense because your salvation comes through deeds and righteous action. There is a concept of weighing your good deeds against your sins, even if no person is without sin. But with most strains of Protestant theology the common theme seems to be, “You’re a sinner because we’re all sinners, and you can never be good enough for heaven except through Grace.” So why sweat it so much when people are having extramarital sex or putting ketchup on their hot dogs as long as people accept the Grace of Jesus? What theological purpose does it serve?

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Nope. 16 and in 7th grade is unusual. 7th graders in the US are usually 12. Or 13 at the most. However, it just says she met him when he was in 7th grade. The sex might not have started until years later.

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Or they may just not have been caught until years later.

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I think this case falls into a similar camp: 16 is age of consent, but “institutional sexual assault” is for folks who use positions of power and influence to coerce sex (or so it seems).

If it was consensual, I don’t imagine there’d be an arrest - there’s More To The Story ™

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I’m working from the fact that he was old enough to give legal consent.

Fair enough. I simply believe that putting someone in prison merely for having consensual sex with someone who is much younger than they are is puritanical, impractical, and cruel.

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Adults often get arrested for having consensual sex with minors who are on the arbitrary boundary of age of consent laws. Hell, kids get arrested for sexting each other. One shouldn’t assume that being arrested in the U.S. means that the person arrested is actually guilty of anything.

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Waiting to see if anyone would post this. :wink:

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I think the teacher involved can defend herself. Unlike the student in her care, who might be able to.

Either way, disappointed in boingboing is a club, and you’re a real member.

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I understand this, actually.

I’m in my 40’s, but currently finishing up my degree at a state college. As long as I am a student, I have a pretty firm “no students, no faculty, no staff” policy for sexual relations, even though my existing partners would be OK with it. I’ve occasionally been flirted with by other students that are literally less than half my age. Talk about mixed feelings …

The thing is, when I was 21, I started a relationship with a woman that was 20 years my senior. (We stayed together for 13 years, actually.) From my perspective at the time, age was never an issue, but from where I am now … I’m really not sure how it couldn’t have been for her, if only a little. (At any rate, I was well within age of consent for any place in the US.)

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Just… good lord. WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS SHIT?!

Edit: Less 'having sex with sixteen year old, which in some states is kosher if very… ‘taking advantage of inexperianced person’ feeling…

It’s more ‘hi these are students that are in my care. i wish to have sex with them.’ I’m talking either way male or female. That just plain feels wrong since you’re a person that has power and authority over them and even if you don’t intend on ever holding that over them… the dynamic is there and the fear exists.

Edit:

Very Poorly. I’m judgmental about a lot of things, and vocal about it. However I try making it clear that this is me talking as preference rather than claiming moral high ground. My parents? They’ll talk like it’s your call freedom of choice, but it’s very clear that you have been judged as lacking even if they do the whole false friendly smiles thing.

I try not to let a lot of things bother me, but this is less me acepting they are one thing and i’m not and more ‘i’m just going to avoid the issue so I won’t feel i must comment on it.’

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So, only the insitutions are Christians now?

Citizens United really has had a long tail…

How do Christians do the whole judgmental thing?

yes… that _Christian Judgementa_l thing, indeed.

something something internal locus of control vs. external

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Nah, just that it pissed someone off. This kid was above the age of consent in PA, so him having sex (even with a teacher) isn’t inherently against the law. The assault charge indicates that at least someone with standing wasn’t on board with it.

Her arrest shows that something went pear-shaped.

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