I’m related to a number of enthusiastic Trump supporters, and work with many more. I could have told you which ones were likely to vote for him before he even ran, based on years of experiencing how well they managed socially to appear decent and charitable, but in reality they’re bigoted and hate-filled.
Don’t fall for their outward appearance. Pay attention to what they say after the black Muslim woman leaves the room.
Based upon what? The only way you could say this is if we hold the election today and the actual vote mirrors the polls.
Time Magazine: The Problem With Bernie Sanders’ Polling Argument
General election polls taken months before voting day have a history of being wrong. According to data compiled by FiveThirtyEight, general election polls taken a year in advance have been inaccurate by more than 5 percentage points in the last 10 out of 14 elections for which there is data.
Even polls six months out are inaccurate, too. For example, at this point in the 2000 election, late April polls showed then-Gov. George W. Bush with a strong national lead of five points over then-Vice President Al Gore. Bush lost the popular vote to Gore by half a percentage point that November.
Part of the discrepancy has to do with the early unfamiliarity of the candidates. This year, despite months of frequent coverage on television, social media and the press, Sanders is not as well known as Clinton. A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll showed that 56% of Americans say they know Clinton “a lot” while just 38% say the same as Sanders. And while Clinton’s negative ratings may be baked-in after decades in the public eye, Sanders has not received that kind of scrutiny.
…
But even many of Sanders’ most ardent supporters do not believe he’d be the best candidate to face Clinton in a general election. In Wisconsin, where Sanders trounced Clinton by a 14-point margin, a CNN exit poll showed that 54% of voters believed that it was Clinton who had a better chance of beating Donald Trump in November.
If history is a guide, early general election head-to-head polls can only say so much. “Pollster aren’t making predictions. They’re trying to determine the state of the race right now,” said Jennifer Necci Dineen, a pollster and faculty member at the University of Connecticut. “Six months from now is even still a little bit early.”
Perfect example - missing the point.
If the goal as you say is to not have Trump as president, then we’ve picked the wrong Democratic candidate to run against him.
I’m not saying that Clinton is not smart, or that we’ll be better off if she becomes president than Trump.
I’m saying its far too close, closer than it should be, closer than it would be with any decent candidate.
And I am saying were it not for the vanities in play in the Democratic party that we would have that better candidate now in Sanders and this contest would be all but over already.
This candidate is a poor candidate because she is struggling to win, and its not just because so many people are stupid enough to support trump, its because so many people are stupid enough to support Trump, and so many people are turned off enough by Clinton to not support her. And if you are not getting it yet I’ll spell it out for you - THAT IS WHY CLINTON IS A POOR CANDIDATE, AND THE WRONG CANDIDATE TO BE RUNNING.
The primary is over. I’d have preferred Sanders, but this is no longer an option. The reality is that there’s one, and only one option besides Trump. “I told you so” is the opposite of anything constructive.
The deplorable half is actually the better of the two halves.
Don’t you think there is a reason for that? And there are plenty of racists who aren’t card carrying members of the Klan or neo-nazis, and who don’t think they are racist, just “don’t want to mix with ‘those people’” nor do they want “those people” in their country.
Of course he’s not going to come out with a blatant white supremacist platform. And given that he’s made rather racist remarks and has GAINED SUPPORT and in fact much of his platform is based on actually racist policies, I happen to disagree with your assessment. No one ever said all of his supporters are racists, but that some are and the rest think it’s unimportant that he has so much openly white supremacist support. Honestly, if you (by you, I don’t mean YOU, but Trump and his supporters - I’m not saying you’re in league with their ilk) are on the same side as people like David Duke, then there is likely something wrong. If David Duke supports a candidate, I’m going to be pretty skeptical if not outright oppositional.
Also:
She may have been a bit fed up. I know I am. Though I think it’s important that people vote exactly as they wish… for whom they they think is the best. I do agree with the ‘sentiment’ of the comment. The media has actually normalized the commentary of white supremacy. IMO, just as a man, I would call him an old fashioned slur, he’s a pig. But I am not saying this in context to public speaking. And I certainly don’t hurl it at folks who disagree with me. Here in an opinion forum, I feel comfortable saying so. Trump is certainly unfit for the office. And he planned to use the Republican party to achieve this office. And the Republicans set it up to open the door to it all.
No. really, I told you so is the only constructive thing right now - a reminder so we don’t find ourselves in this shit position again. And so every dope who told me I had to support Clinton because Trump being proved wrong right now and being reminded of it is the only way we can be sure we are not so stupid again to kick the best candidate of my life time to the curb.
So yes, I god dam fucking told you so.
Nice that you moderated this claim to admit it cuts both ways. But a shame you still act like protesters at rallies are the only main source of violence, as if all the attacks against peaceful Trump protesters, and various attacks on minorities, don’t count as more than a negligible amount of political violence. It’s not so.
Frankly, I thought he did. The one central tenet of his platform has been the wall, to keep out Mexicans, because all the horrible things he claims about Mexicans. He has talked about registering Muslims, “you tell me” how it is different from Hitler, because of all the horrible things he claims about Muslims. It’s really flimsy to pretend it’s not a bigotry driven movement, when it not only fits well with surveys of what his supporters believe, but is openly the sort of thing that gave him popularity in the first place.
And now the other candidate dares to say that supporting such bigotry is deplorable, and we wonder if this lady’s popularity can take the hit, or if she just lost the election. Turns out that’s the one demographic you don’t insult in America! Not because it is a pitiful clown democracy at all, no sir. Just because calling out racists is the real bigotry.
the KKK thing seemed off, I am not really surprised.
Really? You’re telling me, the person who donated to and voted for Sanders, that I was wrong? Puzzling.
Pretty much all the cognitive dissonance you are using to convince yourself Clinton isn’t so bad, is exactly the same thing some Trump supporters are doing.
See, everyone is more alike than one realizes.
And another example.
I am not saying everything dumped on Clinton she deserves. I am not saying she hasn’t been targeted unfairly. I am not even saying Trump isn’t a horrible person. But there has been enough of her actions that I know left wing people who deplore her. Some enough so to vote Green Party. I mean, you did watch some of Bernie’s speeches? Obama’s speeches from 2008? It isn’t like the only people criticizing her are part of the vast right wing conspiracy.
Tell me though, can you think of Republican politicians or supporters with allegations and rumors swirling around them. Even though nothing has ever officially “stuck”, do you still think they are completely innocent of what they are accused of? Heck Trump has been accused of things that didn’t stick, are you saying in your heart of hearts you feel he was unjustly accused, or did he just manage to get away with it? Why would that be different for Clinton or any other politician?
This section isn’t directed at anyone, but general statement:
Don’t act like your shit doesn’t stink.
The current political climate is the biggest shit show in my limited living memory. You want it to get worse? Keep thinking that who ever votes R or D is automatically deplorable. Continue divisive thinking and separation into two exclusive camps. Automatically assume you know how a person thinks and acts because they may have voiced support for one thing or another. Once everyone is neatly labeled, you can join in with your “team”, talk about how horrible the other side is. No need to exchange meaningful opinions or ideas, just retreat to the safe space of like minded folks and trade half truth memes about how horrible the other side is. Hey, it works for ignorant racists rednecks, so it may as well work for you too!
Or maybe work on being better and not turn into what you hate.
Should start at 1:03
Clinton being a crappy candidate unpopular in the general is a bit of a moot point. That’s who the good people of the Dem primaries wanted so it’s who we’re stuck with.
No! Not directed at you. Just saying it out loud for everybody.
What if I don’t believe America is in two exclusive camps, but a varied spectrum of different interests and opinions, of people who may be willing to compromise on one thing or another and often vote the options they can find accordingly – but also think that throwing your enthusiastic support behind someone who’s whole campaign has been built on promises of stamping down on minorities means you have deplorable views?
Is that allowed? Or do I have to pretend supporting the R and D party are always morally equivalent, no matter how much the Overton window shifts, no matter if one is taken over by an openly xenophobic and misogynist group? Do I have to put their equality first, or can I start with equality of people and see how the parties treat them?
Because that’s the thing with this two camp rhetoric, is it erases so many of the people in question. Nobody wants Ds to hate Rs and Rs to hate Ds, so we should try to respect each other’s views! And if that means normalizing hatred of Mexicans, of Muslims, of blacks, of women, of gays and trans*, well, now you’re a bigot for calling that out. I’m not having it.
He did, he just didn’t call it that. I do think that’s the reason he’s getting that demographic’s support.
But of course, as we all know, to be a white supremacist, one has to say one is a white supremacist… at least if you believe some of the apologists for Trump.
I’m in no way happy about Clinton, she has plenty of baggage I’m not happy about. But garnering support from actual people who are white supremcists isn’t one of them. If she did, she’d lose enough voters to not be able to win. [quote=“Mister44, post:155, topic:85071”]
See, everyone is more alike than one realizes.
[/quote]
David Duke backs Trump. NOt the same at all.
There is not being perfect and then there is a world view that dehumanizes large swaths of humanity and has been responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions of people. If calling out white supremacy makes me the equivalent of Trump and his supporters… well, no, it doesn’t actually.
I cant work out which half she was talking about.
Fred Clark over at Slacktivist has a thoughtful essay on the subject worth reading: Every word of this is true, urgent, and necessary.
He comes at things from the not-hateful side of Evangelical Christianity, and his arguments are a compelling reminder that religion doesn’t have to be about intolerance and fear.
Example section:
What about those other Trump supporters? The ones Hillary clearly and generously distinguished as wholly separate from the “basket of deplorables”? They, too, have just been given the very thing they’ve been asking for. They’ve long insisted that it’s not fair to lump them in with Bannon and Milo and Roger Stone and all the Confederate-flag-waving bigots shouting hateful things and threatening violence. They’ve spent months pleading not to be categorized as bigots just because they’re supporting Donald Trump.
And here is herself, Hillary Clinton, explicitly agreeing with them and granting them exactly the exemption they’ve been demanding.
So those folks — the other basket — also have no basis, no cause, for taking honest offense.
