It’s tempting to believe that Liz Cheney has a working moral compass, then you remember that she voted in support of Trump’s agenda 92.9% of the time.
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She has said that she is a conservative to her core, but if it is a choice between Trump and a Democrat she will vote Democrat.
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I’ve heard multiple people who I know to be both highly progressive and extremely anti-Trump mention to me they plan to “skip” the next election because Biden is just too old.
They have no answer to how that helps in any way. Not voting for Biden, whether that’s voting for another person or not voting for Biden, only raises Trump higher. As much as I’d love it to be a Reagan vs Mondale situation, it won’t be. There’s a solid cult following Trump and will do whatever, absolutely whatever, he asks to return him to power. Every person should be highly concerned about that and doing whatever they can to prevent our George III moment.
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She appears to have a respect for the structure of government and how it works. That’s the line. Even then, things that are dirty politics but within the rules, like gerrymandering, are likely completely fine with her.
It definitely shouldn’t be confused with any other policy goals. Within the structure, she would 100% support all kinds of policy and activities that most here would not support. I would not support any of her policy goals.
The demise of the GOP is going to be difficult and create all kinds of problems. Respecting her for pointing out that it’s happening shouldn’t be confused with supporting her for policy. In all truth, the GOP is already gone and been replaced by MAGA, she’s just pointing this out. It’s clearly a plea to get some of the former GOP, who may not have been all in, to split off. If we’re lucky, it’ll work. That would create the first real third party, Dem, GOP, MAGA as the three.
There’s a real risk to Dem policy shifting further right to try to attract those GOP fleeing MAGA. I think this is a lost cause, that it would shift us to the right without actually attracting anyone. The actual policy goals are just to different. A coalition built on “we respect the rules” isn’t enough to hold it together and accomplish anything. Respecting the rules and structure of government is supposed to be universal and not something lacking from half the government.
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She’s fighting for the continuance of the GOP’s pre-audible whistle way of life not necessarily true democracy IMO. Her true colors always show through.
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so, her voters will be never-t**** republicans who otherwise would hold their nose and vote for biden but are now glad they can “vote their conscience,” and clueless “moderate” dems. no way is she making any headway with anyone who would even consider voting for t****, for whatever reason. and those are the only people we’d need her to peel away.
What I’m about to say is cold, but, as someone whose mother was a big Trumpy, I know its true.
At this point, by now, with all we know… the only way those people don’t vote Trump is if they pass before the election. We’re coming up on nearly 8 years of knowing exactly who he is, and we had decades before repeatedly getting to know who he is. You might get a tenth of a percent or two off on the edges of the current group, but these people are ride or die at this point. That’s the only way we’re going to peel those numbers off.
Now, I’m not the type to wish death on anyone, period. I think it brings about an ill specter to do that. It’s not the kind of thing I want on my soul or conscience. So, instead, I’m not really concerned with how to lead the already fervently lost back to the light. I’m going to focus on the people they are hurting and help them.
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I agree with all of this and I think it’s well said:
I diverge from you here:
I don’t think Liz Cheney is appealing to disaffected Republicans fleeing the MAGA coup because there don’t seem to be any disaffected Republicans fleeing the MAGA coup. Liz Cheney is appealing to the GOP as it was before Newt Gingrich got his hands on it, she wants to bring back the old lions of yesteryear. But those conservatives who believe in the rule of law and the role of government are long since lost to the private sector. They’re raking in money as consultants and lobbyists and decorating C suites; they’re not coming back. The coalition Cheney is assembling in her head is going to be a lonely thing that she headlines with Mitt Romney, Joe Manchin and Paul Ryan. More of a golf foursome than a big tent. I doubt anyone will bother with them much.
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right, agreed. which is why cheney can’t help us by going for a third-party run. she’s certainly not going to motivate more folks to get out and vote for biden by running as a third-party candidate.
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How many of those are there?
Compared to those who will:
Vote Never Dem
Vote Never Dem but switch on name recognition.
Vote a write in.
Just not vote.
There’s not some large number of GOP voters who are going to hold their nose and vote Dem because it’s T****. There’s likely a larger chunk who will just not vote at all. Then, there’s the substantial chunk who will vote for T**** anyway because he’s the GOP candidate.
She stands a very good chance of pulling all the write in votes for Mickey Mouse and Ronald Reagan. Kind of a wash for those votes.
I’ve not seen any dems say they would vote for her. It’s almost universal respect that she stood up for the constitution against the rest of the GOP and that’s it. That they still disagree with all of her policy positions. It’s why I don’t think she could find a dem running mate. She’s just to far away even from moderate dems.
There’s no sense trying to shift the party to get those voters. There’s no shift that will get them. Just look at the GOP primary, it cannot even get any of those voters.
The only place to get more votes, is the same as always, get more voters. More voters is always the plan for the Dem candidates.
I agree that they’ve all retired and given up. I don’t think there’s anyone left with the will to join her. There may be some who are not happy to have ended up lumped in with the MAGA group, but those with even a little self respect just retired and crawled away instead of trying to get back the party of before.
That’s still who she’s trying to appeal too. Even if it’s just her trying to will them into existence with the ability to join her. You’re right, it’s going to be a small group.
*Edit: Fix some typos.
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I’m sorry.
This is the worst at the family level. Both my parents are GOP voters. I like to think they’re just along for the ride, but some days it’s hard to tell. The loss of family is real. They’re right there, you can see them, you could call them, talk to them, celebrate holidays with them, try to avoid politics and keep things lighthearted. But, it never works. I know I talk to mine less and less. I’ve got no idea how to solve that. Its even worse when one of them has a personal crisis and needs support.
In the end, its family lost years to early. Profoundly sad.
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Tfa (in the Post) is clear on her saying that she will not run if she is convinced it would end up aiding Trump rather than Biden. She’s considering. Exploring. Figuring out what else to do if running her own candidacy is not the right call.
The way you solve that is kind of a reconciliation in itself. You remember that they DO love you, and are lost. And that you shouldn’t change who you are because of that asshole. If they come back, it’ll be through their actions and their choices alone, but none of this is on you or your responsibility. All you can do is try to be the best person you can be and live by the ethics and values you champion. That also doesn’t mean being a doormat when they start in on you, but it does mean ending the conversation with a “You and I are not going to ever come to terms on this, so you get to choose how we spend time together. I want to choose kindness and love.”
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Yeah, I mean… I’ll take “Wants to preserve a system that has functioned to preserve the power of the wealthy but maintains some responsiveness to popular opinion when sufficiently motivated” over “wants to destroy the system and install a dictator on a throne built of the bones and immigrants and queer people” any day. I’m just not going to like it.
I share your concern about the risk of democrats trying to lurch to the right. Biden’s primary challenger is a member of the problem solvers caucus and seems very much like a minimal reform institutionalist. The media that gop voters consume is going to be trying to label any dem as a “radical socialist”. They’re painting Kamala Harris as one which is absurd.
I can’t see the most answer to a right wing populist message of “Washington elites are taking all the power and money, only I can save you, also kill all the ” being “let’s preserve the status quo! Incremental changes!”. Being able to point to some incredibly popular, centre or more left, but genuinely transformative changes seems like a stronger, more hopeful stance. Add on to that some voting rights reform…
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Democracy has BEEN at risk, for ages now; and enablers and opportunists like Cheney and her father before her are a big part of the reason why.
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As long as she’s anti-abortion, she’s no woman’s sister, and can go fuck herself.
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Or pro forced birth.
Oh right, same ugly awful thing, my her bad.
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If only she could come up with a better way to save democracy than asking her dozens of supporters to throw their votes away…
Being less of an asshole than the insurrectionist, nazi Trump-lickers does not make her not an asshole, and the fact that the MAGAts embarrass her says more about them than about her. I put her in that same category as The Lincoln Project. I’m glad she is stirring trouble for the fascists, but I would not want her near any actual levers of power.
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